XP loss needs to go (566 hours play time)

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zhuceguole#5160 wrote:

What’s wrong with giving other players a better experience? Or is it that you can’t find your sense of superiority unless it comes at the expense of other players?

Removing difficulty, barriers, costs of any kind in a game does affect enjoyment. I don't play D4 anymore because crushing endgame in 10 hours is boring to me. Being spoon-fed gear, loot, and paragon levels (up to like 200 anyway) is horribly boring to me.

So it's not a sense of superiority. It's a desire for difficulty, or at the very least, hurdles to overcome. PoE1 is old. Those of us that like the pushback that PoE1 gives, still want it in the new game with nicer graphics, some added QoL, and WAY more coming.

It's not WRONG to want less roadblocks in a game, but it's important to understand that the roadblocks are the fun for some people, it's not some pissing contest.

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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zhuceguole#5160 wrote:

What’s wrong with giving other players a better experience? Or is it that you can’t find your sense of superiority unless it comes at the expense of other players?

Removing difficulty, barriers, costs of any kind in a game does affect enjoyment. I don't play D4 anymore because crushing endgame in 10 hours is boring to me. Being spoon-fed gear, loot, and paragon levels (up to like 200 anyway) is horribly boring to me.

So it's not a sense of superiority. It's a desire for difficulty, or at the very least, hurdles to overcome. PoE1 is old. Those of us that like the pushback that PoE1 gives, still want it in the new game with nicer graphics, some added QoL, and WAY more coming.

It's not WRONG to want less roadblocks in a game, but it's important to understand that the roadblocks are the fun for some people, it's not some pissing contest.

Do you even realize what you’re saying?

What does experience punishment have to do with difficulty? Even without it, you’d still be stuck at your current difficulty level. Leveling up would still be a long and slow process, even without experience loss.

I’ve always found this argument to be both ridiculous and hypocritical. If punishment is necessary and acceptable, then why did people invent the ESC logout trick to save themselves? I don’t believe any experienced player hasn’t used ESC! Every one of you can hit ESC faster than anyone, yet you’re all sitting here saying punishment is necessary! It’s so hypocritical!

If it’s truly necessary and acceptable, why not just accept your death with dignity?Instead of pressing ESC just to avoid the death penalty.

And another thing!

Death penalties are one thing, but excessive death penalties are another! Do you really think it’s fun when you spend hours making zero progress, farm gear for a whole week with nothing useful, or grind 300 hours just to get 7 divines—without even being able to afford an upgrade? How is that any more enjoyable than Diablo 4? Don't come at me with the pointless argument, "Then just go back to D4!" If POE2 ends up being just as unfun as D4, I have no problem dropping both.

When you're forced back to a lower difficulty, sure, you might stop dying—but you also stop gaining experience. That’s the true meaning of "Removing difficulty, barriers, and costs of any kind in a game does affect enjoyment." Because your failure cost is simply too high!

What a joke!

double post

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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zhuceguole#5160 wrote:

What’s wrong with giving other players a better experience? Or is it that you can’t find your sense of superiority unless it comes at the expense of other players?

Removing difficulty, barriers, costs of any kind in a game does affect enjoyment. I don't play D4 anymore because crushing endgame in 10 hours is boring to me. Being spoon-fed gear, loot, and paragon levels (up to like 200 anyway) is horribly boring to me.

So it's not a sense of superiority. It's a desire for difficulty, or at the very least, hurdles to overcome. PoE1 is old. Those of us that like the pushback that PoE1 gives, still want it in the new game with nicer graphics, some added QoL, and WAY more coming.

It's not WRONG to want less roadblocks in a game, but it's important to understand that the roadblocks are the fun for some people, it's not some pissing contest.

Then ask for difficulty, ask for content. XP loss on death is one of the laziest ways to slow down a game.

No one's saying it's wrong to enjoy a game with some roadblocks. They're just saying that adding a bunch of speedbumps to the road instead of actual roadblocks is lazy. Put the effort into it. Or just remove them, because driving over speed bumps on a road non-stop is fucking annoying.

After reading a hefty portion of these comments over time i think i can safely say i did not expect this to blow up as much as it did. I know this topic is a very controversial one but damn.

From what i can gather on what a lot of people seem to miss here is that we all in every aspect of the game want difficulty to be difficult. The problem i am seeing here from a good portion of these posts is that the difference in what is difficult is being blurred by either selfish desires or failure to comprehend certain aspects of the present difficulty.

One thing i think we can all agree on is that the games current focus on what counts as difficulty is not actual difficulty at all, it is just a system designed to artificially slow progress.

The thing people either ignore or dismiss when comments of XP loss not needing to be a thing is that if levels past 92 are not needed, why make it even a thing. If level 90 is fundamentally the same as lvl 100 then why does level 100 exist?

People at this very moment only want to level because currently and for the foreseeable future it is the only means to progress. What happens when you beat all the content in the game? you have options such as make a new character or farm materials or maybe do a solo self found attempt to gain back that sense of progression. Now those are good examples but in reality people have lives outside of their screen and i think that is dismissed far too much.

I genuinely think we can all agree on one simple thing from this entire conversation and that is, this game needs to slow the gameplay, lesson the situation of "grind to unlock fun".

Now what i mean by grind to unlock fun before someone blows up at me is that currently the league mechanics are unapproachable to people in the end game or just feel pointless until you get atlas passives for those leagues. I put this to the test recently with friends that have almost abandoned this game because of how boring and sluggish and unrewarding the endgame currently feels and what brought them back to enjoyment was that i gave them the keys to fight the pinnacle boss and i carried them through their fist kill to get the first 2 of the 8 points and that DRASTICALLY improved their enjoyment.

A much needed feature in this game is a free trial aspect like how you get your first 2 ascendancies in the game.

You could receive a mission item for each league that offers no reward to make it balanced and to make sure no one can abuse it and the only reward you get is from the first kill on the boss which would be the loot and the passive book which would expunge the free coin upon killing the boss thus making it non exploitable.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Then ask for difficulty, ask for content. XP loss on death is one of the laziest ways to slow down a game.

No one's saying it's wrong to enjoy a game with some roadblocks. They're just saying that adding a bunch of speedbumps to the road instead of actual roadblocks is lazy. Put the effort into it. Or just remove them, because driving over speed bumps on a road non-stop is fucking annoying.

That's not how the "EXP loss" works.

What you describe with the "road bumps over and over" is you dying over and over.

The "street" is actually clear. If you know how to drive and do well - you reach your destination without a slow down (exp loss related).
Hell, you can reach your destination even faster if you build around it,
but that comes with some risk - a higher risk of a "crash".

The "EXP loss" is not a road bump, it's the punishment for crashing your car into a tree - you dead, you know!? That a huge thing, period.

No surprise that this thread has been taken over by the usual forum trolls who think they are playing a high-skill difficult game like Sekiro when they are really just playing Vampire Survivors. They go around insulting other players and demanding these players be punished. Ironically, actually hard games like the aforementioned Sekiro don't have such anti-fun punishments in their games.

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voodoochile78#9787 wrote:

Ironically, actually hard games like the aforementioned Sekiro don't have such anti-fun punishments in their games.

I'm always curious when people say "other games" without examples, because often there's a "...but..." that's included but not being mentioned. Like when people advocate for an AH and cite WoW as a successful game with one, without including info like how much gear in WoW is bind on pickup, for example.

Looking up the death penalty in Sekiro, it looks like you lose half your XP to the next level and half your money when you die. To call that "not anti-fun", I imagine leveling up in Sekiro must be trivially easy?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Then ask for difficulty, ask for content. XP loss on death is one of the laziest ways to slow down a game.

No one's saying it's wrong to enjoy a game with some roadblocks. They're just saying that adding a bunch of speedbumps to the road instead of actual roadblocks is lazy. Put the effort into it. Or just remove them, because driving over speed bumps on a road non-stop is fucking annoying.

That's not how the "EXP loss" works.

What you describe with the "road bumps over and over" is you dying over and over.

The "street" is actually clear. If you know how to drive and do well - you reach your destination without a slow down (exp loss related).
Hell, you can reach your destination even faster if you build around it,
but that comes with some risk - a higher risk of a "crash".

The "EXP loss" is not a road bump, it's the punishment for crashing your car into a tree - you dead, you know!? That a huge thing, period.

You'll find some sort of way to twist anything to your viewpoint, huh?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Then ask for difficulty, ask for content. XP loss on death is one of the laziest ways to slow down a game.

No one's saying it's wrong to enjoy a game with some roadblocks. They're just saying that adding a bunch of speedbumps to the road instead of actual roadblocks is lazy. Put the effort into it. Or just remove them, because driving over speed bumps on a road non-stop is fucking annoying.

That's not how the "EXP loss" works.

What you describe with the "road bumps over and over" is you dying over and over.

The "street" is actually clear. If you know how to drive and do well - you reach your destination without a slow down (exp loss related).
Hell, you can reach your destination even faster if you build around it,
but that comes with some risk - a higher risk of a "crash".

The "EXP loss" is not a road bump, it's the punishment for crashing your car into a tree - you dead, you know!? That a huge thing, period.

This is a game, not real life. If I play a racing game, I don't want a crash to result in waiting for a mechanic to fix my car. All that would do is force me to play the game extremely cautious instead of treating it like a game and having fun.

Same goes with an ARPG. When the death penalty is unbalanced and overly punishing, it forces a play style that's overly cautious, unless you use a broken 1 click AOE build.