XP loss needs to go (566 hours play time)

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Thaynime#8492 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Thaynime#8492 wrote:

Instance reset... Wich is a form of progression loss. Also loosing all the drops from the enemy you killed. As far as I remember (and correct me if I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure even PoE1 didn't have that aside from the boss life reseting.

Instance reset is only a thing in the campaign, so no.

I am not arguing about "do we keep 1 death per map" or "do we keep instance resets" or "do we keep health reset on bosses" or whatever. These are additional punishments and we could argue about them and if they should stay or go, but it's about the "EXP loss on death".

And these other points are even better arguable. In PoE1 we had 6 portals, no matter what we did. In PoE1 bosses did not reset their life to 100% when we died and re-entered the arena and so on. But these are changes they made with PoE2 and depend on what you are doing - aside from "death".

I am asking for a replacement, something that WILL punish you regardless of what you are doing IF you rip your character.

If you're talking into nitpicking technicality, then yes. Otherwise no. What happen if you die in trials? Start from the beggining again. What happens when you die in map? Start another one. So all those different kind of "starting again" fall into my definition of instance reset, wich is a game wide repercussion of dying.

Sure, but if you are in a party and you die in a map the map does not reset when YOU die.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

It's not "my idea"... it's literally how "EXP loss" works in PoE.
And no, the delevel was a counter to your statement before, to show you that it was invalid.

AGAIN... If you want the "EXP LOSS" to be removed... WHAT punishment would you put in place for it!? A punishment that does not depend on WHAT you were doing because it's not about WHAT you are doing - it's about what happened (you died).

A replacement is not required.

Ahh. So... the WORST thing that can happen to a character (gameplay-related AND lore-wise) does not need a universal, direct and explicit punishment?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Ahh. So... the WORST thing that can happen to a character (gameplay-related AND lore-wise) does not need a universal, direct and explicit punishment?

Beyond the punishments already in place? Nope. & you've already admitted it's not a universal punishment once you're at 0 XP on the progression bar. (Not to mention as the other person pointed out, XP loss doesn't kick in until end game).

One thing i can think of that would be more beneficial to the player and the health of the game in MY opinion would be to remove XP loss upon reaching LVL 92 where the real grind begins BUT add a debuff to the character that makes them gain XP at a decreased percentage such as 50% lets say. One way to remove that debuff is to complete X amount of maps and bosses of at a minimum T15. That way you still gain XP and still feel engaged but at a slower pace until you overcome a "challenge" of some form that rewards the full XP back. This would fundamentally support player progression while still punishing death BUT again if they added higher level content they would not need to remove XP loss again in my opinion.

Now i understand my view on this may not be "ideal" but i think it is a better fix that still keeps the player respect while keeping punishing mechanics that make players engage with the endgame systems in place.

The XP debuff could have a gradual declined upon completing certain objectives. Maybe the player needs to complete 15 T15+ maps or complete a trial of sekhemas with no honor resist or something that invites a challenge to gain what you lost from death.

There needs to be a give and take no matter how you look at it. Unfortunately right now all you give is your time and they take away your time which just feels like an artificial influence of difficulty.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

The "10% exp loss" is in the game for a reason, it's a "check".

If your power is good for what you do - you will earn exp, level up and get stronger.

If your power is not good for what you do - you will die, lose exp and don't level up.

So, should you die so often that you lose more exp than you gain - you need to change what you are doing and/or improve your character/skills/passives/etc. or do content you can safely grind until your power level is high enough.

This prevents you from brute forcing things.

If they remove the "exp loss" you would gain power (level up) when you should NOT gain that power. You would overcome/ignore a flaw of your character with progress you should not have.

Two notes; going past lvl 96 is with 99% of the builds not needed, nearly all builds are done at this level or even before that. Only a few rare cases really need the last points.
The other point is if it is "too hard to farm" or "too much time to get lvl 100" I am sorry to break it to you, BUT...

Grinding Gear Games

Yeah, I'm gonna bs on that. How does someone who has that level of success need a check. They have multiply 90+ level builds, they have cleared most of the content, and have over 500 hours played...wtf are you checking here? He can clearly do damage, he knows how to play the game well, he knows how to make good builds...what are you checking at that point?

The only thing left for someone like that is a game that isn't balanced well. And as someone who is getting near the same boat, I can testify that the vast majority of my deaths are to bs stuff in which there is no counter play to. It's 1 shot stuff from the other end of the screen, 1 shot stuff from animations that are undodgeable unless you have capped out move speed and millisecond level timing, lack of visual clarity, and bugs...that is the vast majority of my deaths.

None of that has counter-play to it. And if there is no counter-play, there is nothing to learn from it. It's just frustrating, and it's just not balanced.

And I get the grinding in GGG, but this isn't black and white. It's not casual who plays 5 hours a week or a streamer who plays full-time for 50 hours a week. There is a big gap between casual and the level of play you're talking about, that is still grinding, but still reasonable to expect for a balanced game in 2025.

There is no good argument in favor of XP loss. There is a small portion of people who need an artificial roadblock in order to feel a sense of superiority.

If anyone could just level to 100 by diligent grinding then their accomplishment would be lesser.

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SolomonKain#6053 wrote:

There is no good argument in favor of XP loss. There is a small portion of people who need an artificial roadblock in order to feel a sense of superiority.

If anyone could just level to 100 by diligent grinding then their accomplishment would be lesser.

Your accomplishment would be lesser too.

The fact you'all want XP loss removed means leveling up is something you want. So it means something. The fact you can't reach it means it's a difficult challenge enough.

And as it's never needed, it's not gatekeeping you in anyways. You only want shiny rewards without any effort ; and if the games would be made easier, then those rewards would be made of dirt.

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SolomonKain#6053 wrote:

There is no good argument in favor of XP loss. There is a small portion of people who need an artificial roadblock in order to feel a sense of superiority.

If anyone could just level to 100 by diligent grinding then their accomplishment would be lesser.

*small portion of trolls

fify

I've said it elsewhere, but to me a sensible solution would be to increase the monster levels. There's no good reason for why a max level character is 20 levels above the monsters found in maps. Of course the EXP loss feels bad when EXP gained is hardly noticeable.

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SolomonKain#6053 wrote:

There is no good argument in favor of XP loss. There is a small portion of people who need an artificial roadblock in order to feel a sense of superiority.

If anyone could just level to 100 by diligent grinding then their accomplishment would be lesser.

Some people genuinely do find enjoyment in it, as it does add a bit of thrill and excitement to the game.

But at the same time. Lots of people on the forums argue for it to be kept in because of egotistical reasons, and not actual enjoyment. Lots of people of the forums here are quick to put others down who don't want it. Calling them bad, or insinuating that they're just not playing the game correctly.

Which is what the issue is. There's no right or wrong way to play a game. If someone says they don't like the mechanic. They're just as correct as someone saying they do.

What I don't understand, is why we can't just have the option to partake in it or not. Most games let you choose the way you play. With, or without cheats, with or without mods. With easy difficulty, or hard difficulty. Not sure why the game only needs to suit one type of player. Especially an online game, and not a single player experience where the sole goal of the game is to be difficult and challenging for instance.

I have never seen an online game that does well, when it focuses solely on grinding or punishing gameplay. It's usually very low in player count, and struggles financially unless they resort to predatory ways to get money. Like addiction, or manipulation. They often end up incredibly toxic, and have tons of gatekeeping in them too. Which further drives players away. Even the ones that enjoy it.

My entire argument is that there's just better ways to engage players and keep them thrilled in game. Rather than just kicking them in the nuts if they die. I love a good challenging game, and there's so many ways they could do that, if they decided to get rid of this mechanic and put effort into it. XP loss on death is a half-assed way to add 'difficulty'.