The ''get lucky to have fun'' needs to be changed

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ThreeBelowZero#2968 wrote:

How do I become better at luck? True question. I am very interested in that skill, that way, I might be able to apply it to real life, too.

Its funny you say this seemingly smug in the assurance that you already know there's no way to "get better at luck".

And yet thats actually a large part of the gameplay loop of an ARPG

And life.

If you're interested I can tell you how to get better at luck. One way is called "risk management" in the financial world. Mitigating the cost to succeed and fail until you win.

In poker you're a good player if you understand the probabilities of drawing a winning hand based on what you can see in your down facing (hole) cards, and what you can see in your opponents visible cards, and using this weighted judgement placing bets that WORK TO MINIMIZE RISK AND MAXIMIZE REWARDS over the course of a long series of games.

In this way you improve your statistical odds of having a larger pile of chips.

ARPG's are a LOT like poker in this regard, very specifically gamble "crafting" is almost identical in that you try to mitigate risk and understand your chances of "winning" which is just spending less orbs than average cost of brute forcing.

ARPG's are literally built on this sort of thing. "how do I get more powerful" grind gear and levels which can be done in better or worse (more or less efficient) ways. Dying less often helps get levels, playing more often helps get gear, playing smartly (farming strats) all are akin to the same sorts of probabilistic understanding and management skills.

This is why someone like Ben_ is "extremely good at luck" he's literally better at luck than any other POE player. The same way that there's a few "worlds greatest poker players".

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Asghaad#3967 wrote:

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Maybe the OP downloaded an ARPG by accident, but RNG is the fundamental core of this type of game. If its not what you like in a game, I suggest seeking out a different type of game where its not a foundational aspect.

By no means do I think they have balance, or crafting dialed in but thats beta for you, but yeah its going to be some flavor of this no matter how they dial it.

thats blatantly false

even back in Diablo2 days the character progression was weighted to DETERMINISTIC systems like Uniques and Runewords

Tell us you played Diablo 2 using forum gold without telling us.

Imagine describing D2 rune words and Uniques as deterministic systems because some of them had "locations" where they were in the possible drop pool (or not) or had some ~.1% increased drop chance than elsewhere.

And you're going to contend this isn't an intrinsically RNG system? Because there were some pathetically low weightings? POE has pathetically low weightings as well my dude, just in different ways, and often at quite a lot higher values than D2.

"If I farm here endlessly I have .001% increased drop chance" is a pretty farcical idea of "not RNG". Especially when some chance orb results in POE2 are 1 in 4 on average.

POE has lots of items what specifically drop from Bosses that are way more "deterministic" than most D2 slight weightings from specific bosses. For fucks sake; a HOWA is something like 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 runs (reportedly I've not farmed one).

How many Trav runs for a Shako on average? I don't recall but I'm pretty sure its not 1 in 6. What about specific torches from Ubers?

Chance orbs and Mythic orbs in POE2 and 1 respectively probably have a higher statistical chance to give a specific unique than getting a specific unique from trav runs or whatever.

I agree the level of RNG in this game is not fun. However I don't think it's likely to change much. It looks like the point of RNG is to keep players playing as long as possible. I assume the longer a person plays, the more likely they are to spend money at the shop. If this is true, there will always be some significant amount of unfun RNG in this game.

I've come to this conclusion from reading GGG's trade manifesto and looking into how maps work in POE 1. The trade manifesto tries to convince players that friction is necessary to make items fun. Which is clear bs since many games have fun items and no trade (for example Slay the Spire). I think divine orb drop rate is one of the ways GGG limits progression. Trade friction is just another barrier to progression speed.

My conclusion is further supported by the POE1 map system. In that system you can't just run the same map over and over again, like you could in Diablo 2, instead maps come from drops. So since maps come from drops and trade is so clunky, it takes more player time to run basic endgame content.

In fact this "waste time" concept would explain why you only get 1 life, why waystone drop rate is trash without juicing and atlas points, and likely a few other systems that seem to get in the way of having fun.

Content is expensive to create, but adding a new biome and tileset is likely pretty cheap. With the current mapping system, GGG can add a new league mechanic and most players won't be able to grind it out immediately (since league modifers like breach are random and you only get 1 try). I think of this as RNG time gating.

All that being said, I'm not actually to upset at this. I paid $30 bucks for a good campaign. For people who like gambling and grinding the endgame is for them. While personally I feel this content structure is pretty lame, If others like it, awesome.

Agree. It's so pervasive and intrusive you get to experience the random drops in the first 15 minutes of gameplay. If you were unlucky enough to roll a monk and you are unlucky enough to not got a single drop outside the two gems (one skill and one support) then you will have the worst experience in your gaming life fighting the boss. It happened to me. I killed every mob and looted everything in the map. My first boss fight I had no gear except the default weapon and the 2 gems. I had to login/out farm the map a few times to get some gear to fight the boss to get out of the opening map. That's verifiably terrible gameplay.

From then it just got worse and worser and the worst-est.