Fix ES its obviously overtuned

Reasoning,

Immune to Bleed hits
- why? apparently cuz it hits the shield first so you don't get bled.

ok, then ES shouldn't take into account resistances either then since your resistances are for you not this "shield", seems like a good fix.
Also how does ones equipped Shield block damage if this shield is over you? same as resistances don't allow to "block damage" with es up if you want this quasi "realism".


alternately make bleed able to apply to ES regardless of this silly "didn't hit your HP pool"

-Able to stack a bit silly amounts of it due to plenty of ES bonus Skill nodes, yet 0 life nodes?


That's it, just these things would bring ES back inline to HP scaling even with a larger HP pool

I wouldn't advocate doing all of them, as that would be kinda silly, but a change is 100% needed.

No.

Buff ES.

You want them to make ES effectively a 1 HP buffer... because it buys time before bleed stacks accumulated proc? And this is beneficial to whom, and why, in a PvE game?

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blackarm#7481 wrote:

You want them to make ES effectively a 1 HP buffer... because it buys time before bleed stacks accumulated proc? And this is beneficial to whom, and why, in a PvE game?

what are you talking about? You are immune to all bleed effects currently if your shield never break there is no "bleed stacks" to even accumulate. It doesnt even degen your shield cuz it never applies.

The moment that bleed ignores es immunity, the Keystone CI is dead as any white minion will oneshot you.

Bleed base duration is 6 sec. Its supposed to bypass ES regen and gain. As soon as you break the ES and the bleed is applyed, its there to stay. No matter how much ES you regain due to gems, the bleed will sap your hp (which as ES class you dont have much). If you dont go CI, your ES is also fast gone vs poison and chaos

ES is meant as a HP pool with different recovery rules.

Its important to know the concept of effective HP.

As one of the three defenses its meant exactly as that, an increase to eHP.


Lets say against physical damage:

Player1 has 50% armor and 100 HP. Against phys damage this means 150 eHP.

Player2 has 50 ES and 100 HP. This means 150 eHP against all damage.


Now you would say:" but ES would mean eHP against all damage and armor only phys!"
Thats why STR is the only stat that increases eHP in POE2... Int doesnt do that (anymore)

So it would look more like:

Player1 50% armor and 150 HP. 150eHP against everything and 225 eHP against physical.
Player2 doesnt change.

A 200 phys Damage hit would kill P2 but not P1. Thats why RES on the shield is important or everything would oneshot you.

Path of building is a good tool for seeing the eHP.

We are still missing 5 STR classes that will bring spirit gems to help Life based character. On the other hand we have the 2 pure int classes and 1 hybrid that bring alot of ES sustain.

ES could need a nerf but we dont know how much sustain mechanic for life the new classes will bring (fortify, regen, leech, recoup). Armor is also one of the few anti crit mechanics in the tree.

ES has different pros and cons compared to life.
It does not by default affect your ailment and stun threshold.
You take double damage against chaos.
You don't have the same recovery options as life and instead have to avoid getting hit for a long time to recharge it.

On the other side it gives some benefits like being immune to bleed and easier to get higher value than life to offset the long recovery time.

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Karr285#4892 wrote:

alternately make bleed able to apply to ES regardless of this silly "didn't hit your HP pool"

Thank god you aren't balancing the game as a GGG dev, since you are incapable of making the logical connotation that this would make Chaos Inoculation a suicide node.

The solution to the bleed problem is not obvious at all, and it certainly isn't going to come from the community. I actually am looking forward to seeing how GGG will deal with it, although I do suspect it will be by absolutely gutting ES builds and making them unplayable.

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PrimordialDarkness#3913 wrote:

"

Karr285#4892 wrote:

alternately make bleed able to apply to ES regardless of this silly "didn't hit your HP pool"

Thank god you aren't balancing the game as a GGG dev, since you are incapable of making the logical connotation that this would make Chaos Inoculation a suicide node.

LOL the amount of you is hilarious.

Imagine not having the cognitive faculties to think, huh maybe bleed would just affect the shield itself and not bypass it insta killing CI builds LOL you guys are hilarious.

please dont criticize me when you have 0 understanding or ability to critically think in the first place.

I tend to agree that the bulk amount of ES does appear to be overtuned esp. when you look at opportunity cost vs. effectiveness.

I would contend that Life + Armour builds tend to be worse in several important ways than pure ES or hybrid Evasion + ES builds:

1. ES can easily grow to be much larger than life esp. when you count the ease for ES overflow to occur thus giving high oneshot protection.

2. The builds / classes with the easiest access to ES also have a tendency towards more ranged play which tends to mean that they don't need to invest as much into recovery as they will have better ability to dodge abilities and allow ES recharge to do its thing.

3. Add in some other inherent advantages with more range-oriented builds and the issue compounds itself. Effectively if you have good damage projection [I.E. a good offense] then enemies won't be around long enough to put pressure on your defense.


Life does have its place. Life recovery in its various forms has its place.
Armour & Evasion have their places.

Still that doesn't mean that we don't need to fine-tune ES better given the realities of the current game.

Time will tell what sorts of Life or ES tuning is required.

Cant wait for them to completely gut grim feast and watch everyone brought back down to earth on what is actually reasonable defense.