unpopular opinion: I don't like trade.

Without trading I would struggle to get gather many ex as I have by selling my div orbs. I don't really use the functionality of div orbs so selling them is a good idea instead. And that thanks to trading.

Anyway trading is optional, I like trading however the current system is crap and need overhaul

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

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Zangis#6597 wrote:

Yes, i know it's all luck based. If you read my previous post, I've written it there. That's the problem people have been writing about. It's tedious to play a game where you can spend tens of hours doing the right thing you need to be doing and making 0 progress. Which in a luck based game, happens, and happens a lot. It's not difficult to spend 100 hours brainlessly going through maps to get a drop. It's not hardcore, it's just boring and not worth the time investment
for people with limited time. A satisfying difficulty is something that can be overcome by skill.

Hmm if only there was some system that let you turn upgrades that do not fit your build and currency that you do find into upgrades for your character, maybe by like trading them with someone else or something? I dunno - I'm just guessing that something like that could exist somewhere. I think it could be done via some form of a trading system....

Because if I wanted to play a trading game I'd play Recettear again. See, for most people, this is a game about hitting things with other things and taking things from them. Trade is an entirely separate mini-game that just doesn't interest some people. The whole bullshit of figuring out the price, messaging random people who may or may not respond, may or may not actually want to pay the price, may or may not actually want to give you the item. May just be assholes you don't want to interact with. And that's not even talking about the fact that apparently the economy of it all gets so bad they basically have to reset it every few months and start all over.

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Also, having played PoE beta, I'm baffled how you can say that there was anything incredible about the economy. It was basically the same scammer haven that trade chat is today - except that was basically all it was.

You're literally posting the fact that people were getting ripped off as if it were a positive. I can't even...

It functioned as a logical free market limiter to trade that is a real issue here. And I don't think for a moment they will just undo the trade window, I'm just telling you what I think from my experiences.

The thing is, as I said - everyone knew to ONLY trade with people they trusted - it was so obviously dangerous. You would not believe how many people made friends/joined guilds because of restrictions like that.

Its really MUCH better for the game if people sit on the good stuff they find and not feel like they are missing out. More can drop and not harm the economy. When its a chore players will play way more SSF- but with occasional trades with friends and become part of a community.

While I personally dislike the trade system that GGG is currently using for numerous reasons, I understand that many people like it; and that's fine. The problem is that SSF is not currently a reasonable solution. The reason SSF works so well in PoE1 is because of its robust crafting tools, most of which are absent from PoE2. We don't even have Scouring, so you get one chance per item to roll something decent, and 99% of the time you'll get complete garbage before you even Regal it. Then couple this with how important stat, spirit, and +to skills rolls are, and getting an upgrade outside of trade is next to impossible. Hopefully, this gets smoothed out over time via a variety of balance passes. Trade should feel helpful, sure, but players should never feel like they need to trade to progress.

It's not unpopular; trade is just bad in this version. Nobody is making you trade through, and you don't need to engage with it ever.

1) The trade website is too slow and clunky, and isn't designed for the volume its experiencing; if you post anything it could take a long time to even see it.

2) The "Live Search" feature, while nice, actually limits you instead of just... throttling something it's doing to itself...

3) Prices are all imaginary. Either people are fixing things to 1ex to bait others into listing low, or people are guessing their item is worth 20 divine. When the latter doesn't sell, it's not worth guessing and even a good to decent item gets vendored into a pittance of gold.

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Buyers should be setting the prices; not sellers.

If only one person wants something, it gets sold for that (with a minimum in place to prevent Scroll of Wisdom bids)

If a lot of people want something, they can value its worth.

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Instead we have the frustrations mentioned in the former, while also a clunky system where you need to lower the price by X amount every Y minutes until you get a whisper.

This was fine in the first, and it was even fine in the beginning, but between the people and the massive influx in comparison; it's a mess.

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It doesn't help that divines are 250-270 exalt, and exalt aren't even worth anything when you think about it; leads to divine chasing and selling at any amount of exalt is seen a waste of energy.

End of story: If anything isn't worth 30+ divine, it's not worth trading; tabs and premium tabs aren't worth buying for new players, unless you want a bunch of dust on stuff. There are only about 5 things worth picking up while mapping; everything else is filler; ironically, 99% of them are normal whites. Magic and Rare gets picked up Identified, then thrown back on the ground.

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e: In the game's current state, it just leaves me wanting to go back to the first. Even seeing people mention orbs of scouring or the crafting bench, or finding/making gear worth anything.

As always on this topic... it's just not gong to happen. Since day 1 GGG has described PoE as being "based around a song trade economy." Is a central pillar of their game design. They're not going to remove it any more that Stardew Valley would remove farming. There are other games out there already for your not-trade-based ARPG. Please stop trying to take it away from us.

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

My friend recently got 50+ divines from thin air, by reselling specific white crafting bases.

So?

They spent hours sitting around buying up white stellars and reselling them on TFT in bulk? Great. More power to them.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a broken beer bottle than spend hours on "arbitrage" - but that's a perfectly valid strategy to play games with a trading system.

Go back to UO, Everquest or EVE - any game with a trading system had people who chose to focus on trading rather than the other aspects of the game.

That's not really fun for me so I don't get heavily involved in that aspect, but I don't get the hate for it.

Your whole tone is a little twisted as if reselling items requires zero effort or time investment "thin air", "hideout warriors"

You're acting as if someone just handed him 50d. Your just envious as hell of your friend. If you think they did it so easy - why don't you do it? Oh right...deep down you know it's a huge pain and you don't want to do it - but you don't want them to be able to either.

[Removed by Support]

This isn't about me alone, but about another artificial problem created and allowed by GGG, acting as yet another reason to be discouraged from playing game. Common sense is in eliminating those issues, but ggg is proliferating them like they are testing how much abuse people can take:)

Some eventually quit because of exp penalty, some because of map penalty/sustain, some because of mandatory trade (which is indeed a pain to interact with, interface and 3rd party ToS-breaking tools are another discussion), some because their favorite build is not allowed to be viable, some because of ascendancy trials. Add those groups together and impact becomes more than "just a few toxic people rant while game is perfect", as some prefer to paint it here. Steam charts show it all.

And no, I am not "envious" of my friend, because he is my friend. And he'll give me free items if I return to poe2 and ask. Not going to grind all this shit myself again, being randomly oneshot on the way.

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Zangis#6597 wrote:

Because if I wanted to play a trading game I'd play Recettear again. See, for most people, this is a game about hitting things with other things and taking things from them. Trade is an entirely separate mini-game that just doesn't interest some people. The whole bullshit of figuring out the price, messaging random people who may or may not respond, may or may not actually want to pay the price, may or may not actually want to give you the item. May just be assholes you don't want to interact with. And that's not even talking about the fact that apparently the economy of it all gets so bad they basically have to reset it every few months and start all over.

There are several points that I'll address separately.

Yes the current trading system is terrible. I am firmly in the camp that wants a full blown AH system. Set prices, bids, all that. I want the full damn thing EVE Online style. Don't know the price? List is as a 12h auction and see what you get for it. Shred it if it doesn't sell or relist it. No need to message anyone or haggle or bounce around hideouts.


The economy resets are a result of character progression and flooding of the market with gear and also players losing any need for 'good' but not 'amazing' items. We already see this today where say a great +4 wand is worthless but a +5 sells for 5D+.

There is no way to really fix that without concepts like durability and gear decay that are incredibly unpopular.

As is, on a long enough timeline, every single player will be wearing the BIS gear. You see the same thing in "Standard" in PoE 1 where gear that isn't 'mirror' worthy is basically worthless.

Either way the economy resets cannot be avoided without some form of a gear decay/destruction system which are just not going to go over well with the community.

that is not an unpopular opinion at all, my friend

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

"

Echothesis#7320 wrote:

My friend recently got 50+ divines from thin air, by reselling specific white crafting bases.

So?

They spent hours sitting around buying up white stellars and reselling them on TFT in bulk? Great. More power to them.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a broken beer bottle than spend hours on "arbitrage" - but that's a perfectly valid strategy to play games with a trading system.

Go back to UO, Everquest or EVE - any game with a trading system had people who chose to focus on trading rather than the other aspects of the game.

That's not really fun for me so I don't get heavily involved in that aspect, but I don't get the hate for it.

Your whole tone is a little twisted as if reselling items requires zero effort or time investment "thin air", "hideout warriors"

You're acting as if someone just handed him 50d. Your just envious as hell of your friend. If you think they did it so easy - why don't you do it? Oh right...deep down you know it's a huge pain and you don't want to do it - but you don't want them to be able to either.

[Removed by Support]

This isn't about me alone, but about another artificial problem created and allowed by GGG, acting as yet another reason to be discouraged from playing game. Common sense is in eliminating those issues, but ggg is proliferating them like they are testing how much abuse people can take:)

Some eventually quit because of exp penalty, some because of map penalty/sustain, some because of mandatory trade (which is indeed a pain to interact with, interface and 3rd party ToS-breaking tools are another discussion), some because their favorite build is not allowed to be viable, some because of ascendancy trials. Add those groups together and impact becomes more than "just a few toxic people rant while game is perfect", as some prefer to paint it here. Steam charts show it all.

And no, I am not "envious" of my friend, because he is my friend. And he'll give me free items if I return to poe2 and ask. Not going to grind all this shit myself again, being randomly oneshot on the way.

The fact that there are SSF and HCSSF characters at 100 at 99 shows that trade is in fact not mandatory: https://pathofexile2.com/ladders

Plenty of people will indeed quit PoE2 because it's not the game that suits their playstyle. That's ok. You can't please everyone - and most importantly you shouldn't try to.