We need to raise our voices for Auction House system

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zergy_eggy#4745 wrote:

GGG has stated clearly why they don't want to make an auction house. Read their trade manifesto and you might begin to understand why that's not a good thing for the game.

Incidentally, every ARPG that has a functional auction house is a dead game. But PoE that hasn't had an auction house for over 10 years have players coming back with every new league. Maybe you should try to understand where GGG is coming from first?

They've changed their minds: 01:51:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RskRFwgoQ5g&t=6842s

The currency exchange alone should have been a wake up call.

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SpaniardPuss#1549 wrote:

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SinfilledJay#1485 wrote:

This is the funniest post I have read in a minute. You do realize that GGG has already stated in podcasts to the public that we would be getting an AH? It would have a high gold cost for gear, but it was confirmed.

https://youtu.be/RskRFwgoQ5g?si=2wsS7LTDXHSfttKM&t=6696
You're welcome. <o

Ok, I skipped that podcast tbh, they'r working on it with gold as main cost fee to avoid the obvious abuse (like the settler's currency exhange I guess), and they announced it almost a year ago.

So why our fellow gamers cannot wait patiently for it instead of opening dozens of thread about it per week?

Game is not even half-baked at this moment so it's not that hard to ease down the bit***ng.

Maybe they don't know about the podcast? You know...like you...before you watched it.

+1


Want me to stick with this game, AH or instant buyout or something close to this, is an absolute necessity.

To the naysayers: you realize that World of Warcraft has an AH system since the dawn of times and it still works, who woulddathunk right?

Although, for this game, for any game with AH, I'd LOOOOOVEEEE to see it implemented with player shops - setting up vendors, decorating and stuff.. Ultima Online style

The large majority of WoW items you actually want are bind-on-pickup, so the WoW AH is effectively more like the currency exchange.

I've thought about this alot, and I think the best compromise is to have an efficient trade+chat+stash dialog that sellers can use to complete a trade without leaving what they are doing.

1. You are doing a map
2. You receive a trade request with buttons (start trade, and disable trade for this map).. buyer receives the state of any event you are doing (ritual, breech, delirium, etc), so they now you are not blowing them off but just busy for a few seconds.
3. you do something to calm down the fighting action (aka finish the breech or whatnot)
4. You push "start trade", which pauses the game and opens a trade/chat/stash window....(which doesn't allow you to move items between your player inventory and stash) allowing you to (a) get the item out of your stash, (b) talk to the player if you need to negotiate, (c) put items in trade window.
5. You setup and complete trade... moving received items into your stash.
6. You close dialog and resume playing map.


If this existed, I would re-list my sale items on my trade character... Without it, anything less than 5-10ex is just not worth the trouble to sell. (Which might be GGG's intent anyway)

The reason this still has access to your stash, instead of just automatically putting the requested item in trade, is that the latter is very bottable, while the forcing the player to go get the proper item out of their stash is sort-of like CAPTCHA.

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KuroSF#6521 wrote:

The reason this still has access to your stash, instead of just automatically putting the requested item in trade, is that the latter is very bottable, while the forcing the player to go get the proper item out of their stash is sort-of like CAPTCHA.

God forbid we ever have bots in PoE trading.

Would be very interesting to see a mass outrage of the trading system, because it simply won't go away.

More odd reasons for why it has to exist will pop up, I promise.

In this case the player's experience is entirely irrelevant when compared to the sales potential of premium stash tabs. With a proper auction house, there would be vastly less reason to own a premium tab.

Hell, about 12 years ago I made my very first MTX purchase in any game ever, and it was in PoE1... can you guess why? To buy stash tabs because the game was becoming unfun to play with the default 4 or 5 tabs.

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tyrespoe#5113 wrote:

More odd reasons for why it has to exist will pop up, I promise.

Not THAT many actual reasons against AH posted so far, in this or other threads. Mostly people going "NO" and leaving it at that, or saying they actually like player - to - player trade (good for them, I guess).

The best I see are references to 2017 post by Chris Wilson, which is more of a design philosophy manifesto, and not entirely relevant to current PoE2 situation.

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tyrespoe#5113 wrote:

In this case the player's experience is entirely irrelevant when compared to the sales potential of premium stash tabs. With a proper auction house, there would be vastly less reason to own a premium tab.

I think that's just part of the problem. For whatever reason, GGG seem dead against most modern QOL improvements (and I mean modern in a very loose sense, some of them are around since 10 years or more). It's basically "if it worked in Diablo II, it's good enough for you" way of thinking. I believe their approach to trading is a part of this mentality.

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

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SpaniardPuss#1549 wrote:

You'r not gonna get an AH, ever.

Each mode in this game comes with some friction attached to it; hc players will eventually lose their characters, ssf players will eventually lose their s**t farming X items, trade players will eventually lose X amount of their gameplay time trading.

That's how it is and should be, so stop asking for even more facilities for a mode that actually trivializes 95% of the game.

Get over it and enjoy ur friction just as we all do.

It's always been funny to me how GGG used the word "friction" when others tend to use "challenge" - but the common mistake game designers make is mistaking tedious game design as a challenge and thinking that overcoming it will make players feel rewarded.

The current trading system adds nothing but tedium to the game and the only reward we feel at the end of a trade is that we can go back to actually playing the game.

It's a net negative system. It only adds tedium and overcoming tedium is not rewarding.

I argue that friction, tedium and challenge are 3 separate things.

Challenge could be a boss fight that requires both a gear check and mechanical skill from the player. Tedium would be requiring 30 hours of mindless Atlas grinding to get the keys. Friction would be only allowing one kill of said boss every hour per account to prevent power farming it even if you had the keys. We're currently on a single point in poe2 endgame; tedium.

Trade system has no challenge inside it, nor does it have any tedium or friction in it as you are not gated by anything but the available gear and currency. Gaining the currency is the only tedium in the system really. I deposit that some throttling mechanism has to be part of it, be it having to mess with other players, have an hourly trade limit or heck just have the gear bind-on-trade.

"I want" is not the same as "the game benefits as a whole" either, but it is fully natural for someone to want everything here, now and for free. That's not a justification for the implementation.

If we assume they would create a fully non-asynchronous non-delayed non-bidding Gear Exchange (to borrow the name in use) then you need to have some friction inside it to prevent full-on flipping by those who are first on the market. A small gold cost to both list and buy, like 100k per exalt, 2 million per divine (split maybe 50/50), for the privilege of being offline when trading, would allow for listing on in-game while not inflating the available gear endlessly. This would also keep the normal listings alive as some would prefer not to pay the gold cost and deal with people instead.

D3 manifested this problem for 2 (3) reasons;
1. gear required to proceed didn't readily drop when game was balanced to have it drop
2. due to everyone listing everything, nothing had value, except the very top end fo the gear
(3. and it used real money so there was no incentive for gold trading)

P.S. don't whisper the first player on trade site, just put better rolls on the unique you wanna buy and buy a near perfect one for 1ex more. Also, trade site has no ignore slot limits, there are probably no more than a few dozen accounts sitting on price fixing lots anyways. Ignore button is next to the Whisper button, try it out.

We just can't ignore the fact that being forced to stay online to buy/sell items is unacceptable.

I really, really hate trading via websites. I hate using third-party programs to check prices. I hate sending tons of whispers and trying to keep track of which one is which every time. I just want to click on a vendor (like Alya), see the items listed by people, and click the buy icon. We are not living in the '90s. In a game released in 2024/2025, I should be able to enjoy the convenience of a trading system integrated into the game.

I don't care about the "possible problems." GGG is a company that makes money, after all. If you can't solve those potential problems (for example, WoW has had this AH system for decades. don't tell me the "WoW is a big company, big game" fairy tale), then please don't throw the "easy trading is bad and here is why" bla bla manifesto at us. As a game company, you "have" to make things gamer-friendly, even if it creates new problems. Your job is to solve them.

Because, as I understand it, PoE 1 is more for veteran gamers. But with PoE 2, GGG also wants new players and casual players to play their game. Well, let me tell you this: most of these players are already struggling to dodge boss attacks. Imagine how they would handle trading via a website. Most of them are even struggling with basic controls like using W, A, S, D, spacebar, etc. Now imagine them trying to figure out "count, weightsum, and" options on a trade website. I don't want to read and learn these types of things or waste my time just to buy an item. I JUST WANT TO BUY AN ITEM, MAN.

"If you search like this, the result will be better." "If you do it this way, it's the best." Bla bla bla. Even I, as a non-casual player, get frustrated with this stuff. This is just not PRACTICAL. Period.

An auction house or whatever you want to call it—an in-game trade system—is the most important and urgent feature this game needs. Every single argument against this is neither logical nor practical.

And lastly, I laugh so hard when i hear "diablo had ah and look what happened" argument. GGG is a good company because they care about their players feedbacks. And they try. So that's why they can lead and show endustry how to make things right. I don't accept the idea of that they stuck in the past.