Game is dropping like a stone

+ i've been level 89 for 1 week now not able to progress and the its because i'm not abusing some type of a defensive or offensive OP broken unique... you'd think having amazing rare items overcap max res 120+ 4k life 70% armour and 85% evasion would be enough (insanely high on POE) and really insane dps 60kx6 with 100% pen that i'd be able to kill most things (I do) but then these on-death effects shit all over my defenses and they're all over the fucking place.. it really sucks.. I don't see many people trying to get over 92+ because the toll that comes with a death is so drastic... if Diablo 2 was their inspiration this is a failure.

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ErdrickDragonsbane#5911 wrote:

I've pointed out the peak issue to people, myself, and the low-IQ crowd just doesn't get it. They think this level of retention is a sign of massive success, not understanding that for this type of game, particularly with it being paid access, it's a monumental failure. It shouldn't have reached maximum peak on day 3, and it certainly shouldn't be down 26% peak to peak, Sunday the 8th to Sunday the 22nd, literally only two weeks later. It should be growing in numbers in this time span, if it were successful given the nature of the game and its early access status.

At current rates, it will take around 2-3 months to dip below 50k concurrent users at peak. And, given the nature of this style of game, the rate of decay is extremely likely to exponentially accelerate until it bottoms out with the relatively small handful of diehard fans who will play it no matter what. You see this in the Steam Charts for PoE1 after each new league start. Therefore, my expectation is that PoE2 peak will dip below 50k within 6 weeks of EA launch.

And, because of how PoE2 is designed, which is with heavy amounts of anti-player, anti-fun mechanics and design philosophies, most of the players who leave will have no desire to return.

GGG was worried about too high of loot drop rates and the negative impacts of lowering them over time, and yet they didn't think about the negative psychological impacts of having too many anti-player mechanics and design philosophies during the players' first impression, and how lowering the number of those, or even removing them all entirely, won't bring back players who have already formed a tainted and negative first impression of the game.

And that, to me, is the most frustrating part about all of this. GGG has proven they listen to feedback, even if it sometimes takes far longer for them to do so than it should. But there are so many people defending bad mechanics simply because to do otherwise would be to admit they paid money for an inferior product, and they're being toxic enough to players offering constructive criticism that it's driving us away and potentially convincing GGG that they don't need to change the core issues.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Most people defending the game's perceived "difficulty" or stuff like overly harsh "we have the player" anti-fun death penalties are still in campaign. I'd say at least 70-80% of players are still not in maps(and I'm being generous here).

The moment the main pack of hype-train riding players finish the campaign they're either gonna just quit because they've "beaten" the game or they're gonna see just how frustrating and aggressively punishing the design is. They will see a game that doesn't respect their time, leave and their first impression will leave a bad aftertaste in their mind forever no matter when GGG starts doing damage control and reverting all of this. It will be too late by then, they're already losing so many players for good.

This game is truly a massive fail. Every single aspect of it in my opinion is god awful. The balance across the game is so bad it's as though GGG never even tested a single part of the game.

The campaign is absolutely terrible. And what on earth is with the trash side quests. I ended up with dozen items in my inventory having no idea what to do with them. I will never, ever make a new character in this game because of the campaign being so boring, annoying and pointless. There was nothing interesting or fun about it.

Now Ascendency. What the actual... Whoever thought of putting that behind content people mostly hate I do not know. I am melee and it was the most stupid crap I've ever experienced in any similar game. That too is why I'll never make another character.

Let's move on to mapping. It is absolutely tedious and unrewarding. The maps are so bad it's hilarious. Then you think of running a minute across a stupid map to find out there's rares at either ends you need to kill to complete the bloody map. That doesn't even go over the complete nonsense of juicing maps. Who the hell wants to travers across the atlas to towers to throw in tablets. Remember you also need to consider the maps in a section you want to juice so that they work well with that content. It is so crap most players won't ever do outside of those who play 6+ hours a day, and of course streamers.

And finally. Character balance. Literally the most pathetic excuse of attempted balancing I've ever seen in a game. Tree is awful. Some of the builds are as busted as those from Poe while say warrior are crap, and somehow they nerfed stampede while lightning warp 10m DPS teleporting auto bomber exists.

Crafting. Capitals this time, and said hundred times over; what the actual ****! Literally one of the biggest, if not the biggest aspects and enjoyable to many in Poe is crafting. I loved crafting gear. Now in Poe 2 it is absolutely a pathetic joke. The change to crafting alone should be the reason this game fails.

This game is genuinely so damn bad GGG should be ashamed, not just embarrassed. Hype is usual, it is expected. This game has it's hype for two weeks and it's death within a few days after that. Poe 2 will the biggest flop in history I suspect.

what i am dissapointed about is almost impoosible play with friend now ,once you die in map it is over , you cant go back.like WTF we want play together but we can not. i was hoping they will improve it like every person will have theier own portals in party and 6 lives or something now it is completly busted one life and BB . we have to quit map all if one die or person who die must w8 doing nothing which is sooooo bad. also SSF why we can not play together on SSF ? just dont allow trading or picking others loot.

so please make it better for party.

Tried playing for the first time in a week on my 91 deadeye. Did one map and deleted the game again. No fun factor at all in this game. No crafting. Junk drops. Feels like 1999

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

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pattw555#0071 wrote:

Feedback points aside, I think many are valid.

You said this is “not normal”. I think I hard disagree with you - Can you name another recent game (last 4 years?) on steam that launched with >200k players and steadily grew/didn’t shrink at all for 2+ months?

From a purely data driven perspective I think PoE’s curve can basically be empirically proven out as normal, despite that not fitting into your own mental narrative.

The data is all publicly available and there for us all to see, so I’like happily be proven wrong if anyone can find some games that meet the criteria I called out above though. I did a few quick searches and everything looked like PoE’s curve.

POE2 has been out 2 weeks.
Not 2 months.

And "shrink or grew". Well, there is a hell of a difference.
Good games get good reviews and player feedback, and it gets more people into the game.
Elden ring ROSE with 100k players over the first month across platforms.
POE2 lost 150k players in two weeks.

Everything looks like POE's curve if the time is long enough.
For single player campaign style games with no concurring endgame.

POE2 claimed 40+ hours of campaign for the average players, alongside 200+ endgame hours. This is GGG's stated metrics.
If the average player plays for two hours a day, that is 20 days -three weeks for campaign, and a couple of months in endgame at least.
Double that, and most players should still be in new game content for at least 60 days.
For the super nerds, 8 hours a day plus players, it should give them a full month still.
So if the drop off is across all players, the drop off metric is insanely premature.
I'd like to add that there are a bunch of classes and 12 ascendancies, replicability is enormous. Which it is not for the majority of the games you compared them too.

So can you provide ANY examples of games that started with high player count and have what you believe to be "healthy" steam charts in the first couple weeks/months then?

You just typed a bunch of the same stuff that's already been said here, but completely failed to address the thing I called out - NAME THE GAMES.

I believe you did this because you knew you couldn't provide the examples I asked for. Prove me wrong, I don't believe I'm wrong but will happily be proven wrong with data.

I've looked myself and didn't see any games that looked significantly different than PoE's charts, so I don't really believe there are any out there, but again, happy to be proven wrong.

EVERY SIGNLE GAME. EVEN THE GREAT ONES. Have steam charts that look like this.

I've just spent a bit searching, every major game that launched with significant interest/player count quickly falls off. Palworld, Helldivers, ELDEN RING, BG3. ALL OF THEM. Look it up yourself.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, name the game that bucks the trend. Keep in mind it does need to start with significant player count at launch to be comparable.

Can anyone name a game that looks any different? I'm genuinely curious. I asked before and no one did, I don't think anyone can, and I think this entire thread is just people with no clue circle jerking. Prove me wrong with facts please.

I do think there's a ton they can and should improve, I for sure have shared my fair share of complaints here. But pointing to the steam chart is just people with 0 clue touching themself. PROVE ME WRONG.

Merry Christmas guys, lets take a break from the arguments/debate/anger for just today yeah?

Guys, we are testers, accept that instead of wanting to enjoy the game like we did in PoE

Its not going to be a surprise that EA falls off massively and its to be expected. We can judge when 1.0 releases and how the following couple of leagues fare. You can't judge POE 2 yet, but its not looking good.