Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular
" So a player keeps dying because he's undergeared. So what? You really think that dying twenty or thirty times won't get the message across, but adding an XP penalty suddenly will? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think the game should force (or at least strongly encourage) players to play the "correct" way. I disagree. If a player wants to die over and over against an "impossible" boss, that's their prerogative. The most important thing, and the thing you're deliberately missing, is that you're advocating to teach players to avoid risk: that if they're dying on maps, they're doing something they shouldn't be doing. Get better gear, choose easier maps, level up more - these are all things that make the game easier. Sure, you need to level and gear, but that shouldn't be the automatic response to dying on a map. Death should be a constant companion. If most players aren't dying regularly, the game is too easy and needs to be rebalanced. |
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" There is no reason for us to discuss this further. For you dying has to happen or the game is boring. I believe if a player keeps dying over and over again they are doing something wrong. Those two are mutually exclusive. Therefor we will never reach a consensus. As a little asterisk: I am talking about farming in maps. Not bosses. To me once you are at a point where you try to beat pinnacle bosses you don't really care about leveling that much. The priority at that point is defeating the boss. In PoE 1 and even stronger in PoE 2 there are consciously designed mechanics that everything you do comes at a cost. So there is always something to lose. This is by design and was increased a lot in PoE 2. Other successful PoE like games like Diablo 2 and Last Epoch have similar design elements. So dying is disincentivized. This is why I would argue that my train of thought is more in line with the intended design behind these types of games. And yours may be better fitting for other types of games like Dark Souls. |
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" Then don't run a map you clearly cannot run.. you should know or at least learn the modifiers on maps that you're dying to. If that isn't the issue and you're dying to white maps then clearly somewhere you have a major flaw with your build.. it's that simple. SSF players are fine you don't see them complaining HC players are even better they aren't bitching about anything because this is exactly the vision GGG wanted. Last edited by QticaX#4168 on Jan 1, 2025, 12:53:22 PM
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" I feel like only unskilled players feel this way Multi-Demi Winner
Very Good Kisser Alt-Art Alpha’s Howl Winner Former Dominus Multiboxer |
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I have had a realisation that this is even more flawed than I thought.
Not only does it make you go backwards in progression, it makes you go backwards in difficulty. Let's say you are happily running tier X maps and levelling slowly but surely yet without any significant upgrades. You die occasionally but not enough that your progress is unsatisfactory. Yet through a run of bad luck on both crafting and discovery of upgrades for a few levels, you are no longer progressing because your character's power hasn't progressed significantly but the XP per level, and therefore the XP lost on death, has gone up significantly. Not sure of the XP curve but possibly the XP for running the same maps has even gone down. So running the same maps you were happily playing to progress a few levels ago are now 'too difficult' even though you have not become any weaker. You could run X-1 maps but the likelihood of dying isn't all that much less and possibly not even enough less to mean you progress any better. This is completely backwards, feels awful and in my view ruins an otherwise great game. I am only feeling stronger about this day by day. I forgot to mention above that not only will this cause players to stop playing it will absolutely stop many from even trying the game because they know this is what's in store for them. It is anti-fun and I am yet to see any good argument for it that is not predicated on having already accepted that this is how it must be because this is how it was in poe1 and people learned to live with it by sacrificing the moment to moment experience. |
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" False dichotomy. There is a whole range of experiences between the position that death should be a potential outcome for the game to feel exciting and that you should only die 1/100 maps, which is virtually zero chance of dying. You keep referring to dying over and over as if people are dying the second they step foot into a map but I don't believe anyone is actually arguing that that should be rewarding. I believe what typically happens is people clear a few maps and are feeling like the difficulty is about right. Then either through bad luck with random rare mods on enemies, a lapse, or a couple of beers they die and lose all the progress they had made. The higher you go the bigger this issue becomes. The death rate of once every hour or two becomes intolerable. It can be further exacerbated as I describe above where RNG doesn't give you any upgrades, the passives alone are not enough power increase and suddenly even though your death rateis lower you are going backwards because the XP loss has increased. So now you are forced to reduce the difficulty and hope the lower death rate is enough to counter the XP reduction. Yes there are ways to brute force this hurdle, trade for power, copy someone else's OP cookie cutter build, but ultimately this just kicks the can down the road. Plus somehow I got the impression GGG want people to be able to explore builds and endgame activities for themselves. It's just a complete fun killer. Last edited by Orion_3T#5225 on Jan 1, 2025, 2:51:19 PM
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Game is too easy. When you die demote a whole level and reset the experience bar to 0. %10 is a joke, either remove it or boost it to a meaningful punishment.
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" Remove it and let people who like excitement-free grinding fun go play hardcore to really get the full no-risk slow grind experience. Or make it 3 modes. Last edited by Orion_3T#5225 on Jan 1, 2025, 5:06:04 PM
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" If they make 3 modes they will very quickly find out that nobody will play the in between. Hardcore players will stick to hardcore and basically everyone will leave standard for the "easier" mode. |
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please remove or change XP loss. Im lvl 91 and I loose about 30 minutes of my LIFETIME dying a single time.
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