Please consider making SSF fully separated mode

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

Congratulations on missing the part where i mentioned you're judging whether or not ssf is viable based on the first look of beta access of an unfinished game and deciding "it's too much, better change SSF to have more loot or it's not feasable"

Like, you're jumping the gun completely because you're assuming this is the finished product, and basing the decisions you'd like to see going forward on speculation of this being the standard. It's just not, get a grip.

You can't be serious....jumping the gun? 12 years of development and word for word statements from the developers across the years is not "jumping the gun" or making assumptions. It is the expected pattern of development while the game continues to be centered around trade. The reasoning behind how they balanced PoE 1 across its entire lifetime hasn't just gone away, nor would any reasonable person "assume" otherwise.

The one making unfounded assumptions is you, completely contrary to over a decade of proof and statements from the developers of the game we are currently playing. Hence.....the existence of this thread. And, in case you didn't know, one of the most common suggestions and requests across the entire lifetime of PoE 1 as well.

I mean....I guess technically its an assumption: but it is one based on tons of historical evidence, first hand accounts and plans, and knowledge of the game. Meanwhile, you describe a scenario that has NEVER existed nor has ever been described by the developers.

You're not listening. If it's centered around trade...fine. That doesn't change the fact that loot, as it sits right now, is not in the state that is final. Do you see axes? Flails? How often do they drop?

Loot isn't finalized, because most of it doesn't exist yet. Thus, things are in an awkward state, and because of that, it's likely more difficult to SSF gear yourself now than it ever will be.

That doesn't mean "change ssf mode", that means fix loot in general.

You're aiming your hate gun at the wrong target, and you're too stubborn to realize it. You say i'm not listening, that it's centered around trade?

Nobody's arguing that. Only you are. I don't give a shit if it's centered around trade, if poe1 is centered around trade, it doesn't matter right now.

because loot right now isn't in the final state it's going to be in.

Pay attention.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Everything that has been said are NOT assumptions: they are explicitly stated facts by the developers of PoE. It wasn't even a one-off buried interview statement, multiple developers across the years have repeatedly described exactly how and why drops are balanced around the trade economy and thus are quite severe.

+1

A solution to make SSF drop rates irrelevant to Trade League would be a simples flag on items/currency dropped... the character migration could stay the same, but the character goes naked, farm it all again.


How hard is to put a SSF flag on items dropped and block it from being traded? Must be hard with those Vision spaghetti codes.

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And, in case you didn't know, one of the most common suggestions and requests across the entire lifetime of PoE 1 as well.

Separate post for this one:

There is always going to be someone bitching on the forums to make something easier, to take off restrictions, to make the game less of a game and more of a "you won" screen, because people are entitled and believe "I should win, that's the point of me being the player".

It's an entitlement thing. There's always going to be some paint eater in here asking to get more for doing less.

That doesn't mean the mode is a problem in it's current state. It means gaming culture is garbage in 2024, and people treat gameplay as an obstacle between them and the rewards they're 'owed'.

All GGG has to do is look at Last Epoch. Their Trade or SSF faction system is probably the best solution I've ever seen to this this problem in any ARG. I have no idea why PoE can not do the same.

Unless they don't want players gravitating towards SSF because they would sell less stash tabs and cosmetics...

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

Loot isn't finalized, because most of it doesn't exist yet. Thus, things are in an awkward state, and because of that, it's likely more difficult to SSF gear yourself now than it ever will be.

Wrong. Dead wrong. It is EASIER than it will ever be to gear yourself now. Because the total loot pool is significantly smaller. It was that way in the PoE 1 beta as well. All aspects of itemization is EASIEST right now, while mods and items are limited. This includes crafting and using orbs. Again, this is the entire crux of the problem, and something we have already seen through 12 years of PoE 1 development. As the gear types increase, and the mods increase, and the uniques increase, drop rates of usable items decrease in comparison. Basic math here. If its bad now, it will ONLY get worse. I actually don't think its bad right now, but I have seen what will happen later.

Now factor in the developer's need to pay attention to TRADE as a central construct of how loot is gained: rates are further slashed because it is "easier" to get better gear via trade by aggregating across ALL players instead of just yourself. (made up numbers, but accurate representation) That 1/100 chance that might have been there in a single player design becomes 1/100000 thanks to the existence of trade. Current SSF still uses the 1/100000 number, rather than re-proportioning the experience.

Again, I'll direct you to the WHY of this thread that you seem keen on ignoring. This has all happened before. It is historical fact.

You may call it whining, but some people just want to play on their own while not having to play for years at a time to complete 1 character. They want to be able to play by themselves and have an actual ability to reach the upper echelons of the game which is almost entirely gated behind trade thanks to how the game is balanced.

Most games with trade have this feature: it is PoE that is the odd man out. And has always been the odd man out, which is why this suggestion keeps popping up over and over again. People play other games, see what it COULD be like, come back here and offer the suggestion.


Furthermore, on the topic of "entitlement": it has nothing to do with entitlement. It has everything to do with the difference between 1 person interacting with game systems designed around having millions of people interacting with that same game system. The 3/4 month league cycle, paired with loot drop rates, paired with weighting rates, are all designed with millions of drops in mind. All that this suggestion asks for is for that to be scaled down to a realistic number for a true SSF player that wants to enjoy the "normal" game, albeit without trade. We aren't looking for a D2 drop mod.

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Wrong. Dead wrong. It is EASIER than it will ever be to gear yourself now. Because the total loot pool is significantly smaller.

What happens right now when an enemy dies; is it programmed to just drop what we have, is it programmed to "if it's a sword don't drop that, they're not ready" and drop nothing, or is it programmed to have significantly lower drop rates for currently activated item types, but uses the percentages that would assume the entire expected item type catalogue is active? What is it balanced around, right now, if you log in and kill an enemy, right now?

You don't know. You're assuming it's in a finalized state. You're assuming they balanced drops around the limited pool of what is in the game right now, and came to numbers that would allow for a current trade economy to have 'enough but not too much gear'. You assumed WAY too much.

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You may call it whining, but some people just want to play on their own while not having to play for years at a time to complete 1 character. They want to be able to play by themselves and have an actual ability to reach the upper echelons of the game which is almost entirely gated behind trade thanks to how the game is balanced.

"years at a time"

If you put a couple of hours a week, i guess?

Also, i love this part because you say "i want to play without having to play 'too much', and reach the end of the game, but it doesn't let me. I know there are people that do make it there but they don't count"

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Furthermore, on the topic of "entitlement": it has nothing to do with entitlement. It has everything to do with the difference between 1 person interacting with game systems designed around having millions of people interacting with that same game system. The 3/4 month league cycle, paired with loot drop rates, paired with weighting rates, are all designed with millions of drops in mind. All that this suggestion asks for is for that to be scaled down to a realistic number for a true SSF player that wants to enjoy the "normal" game, albeit without trade. We aren't looking for a D2 drop mod.

So you assert the game is 'centered around trade', assert that you don't WANT to trade, and therefore since you don't want to trade, you want to play ssf. ssf however comes with the stipulation of "You have to self-find your items, solo, but everything else is the same", thus making the gear grind incredibly long, because as you said, the game is based on trade right? So you want that restriction to have less weight on your progression, because you want to be able to get to the end of the game faster, with gear that you found instead of traded for because you don't want to do that.

You want to beat the trade-based game without trading, by going into the solo challenge mode and demanding it be made easier so you can do what you want to do, the way you want to do it. But that's not entitled.

I worry it would split the community too much

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

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You have no understanding of the request, nor do you appear to have any interest in understanding why the request is being made. You seem to think SSF HAS to be a challenge mode and will hear nothing else. Like you've never heard of a "single player" mode before.

Last thing I'll say because it seems I really need to dumb it down:

YES the game is centered around trade. That is not in dispute.

The whole crux of the suggestion is that SSF should NOT be. It does NOT need to be a "harder" mode like it currently is. That is WHY this suggestion is being made. The entire last half of your last post is unnecessary and ignores this.

Why in the world would we be making a suggestion or offering feedback about this if it already existed? That's the freaking point. We all KNOW what the "current" SSF is....there is no need to talk about it. It isn't relevant to the discussion insofar as we are arguing for a different type of SSF. You seem incapable of getting over this fact.


How do drops currently work and what does that mean for the current/future of drops? In any scenario you describe, the underlying math and mechanics don't change. The fact that you can't see that means we have nowhere to go arguing drops. There is no fundamental basis to build upon because you think you are being clever while not realizing that none of that even matters.
Whether the flail
1) doesn't drop at all,
2) converts to another item, or
3) has a baked in significantly lower drop rate (impossible btw because that would mean it "exists", same scenario as 1 or 2)

It STILL translates to drops being EASIEST right now than they will ever be. Or at the very least, equal to what they would be if the flail did exist right now. In no way is it HARDER at the moment.


One final remark: "entitlement" implies an advantage over other people or players. The very definition of SSF excludes entitlement from the argument altogether. There is no comparison to be made to others. It is the same request as someone who might ask for HC mode, or Ruthless mode. It just happens to be in the other direction.

+1

been complaining about this and proposing this exact solution for several years now

+1 trade is not fixable, ssf is