Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.

Edit:
Some thoughts from page 11.

For all the people claiming they share the majority’s opinion and that I speak for a "vocal minority":
Feedback, by its nature, is mostly negative because if someone likes something, they just play the game and don’t bother with forums. So stop using that dumb argument.

That said, the fact that the community (even the most hardcore streamers) voices so many uniform concerns—mostly about QoL and the unnecessarily punitive nature of the game—is concerning.

Some people write that I don’t speak for all aRPG fans, or even for the majority. But is this QoL deprivation torture really what the majority wants? Do you play because of it or despite it? Are you arranging your hideouts with stuff spread as far as possible or as close as possible? If it’s the latter, why can’t developers do the same? Why does getting to the actual content take so long?

The game is now a torture device. In hindsight. I wouldn’t mind arcade, skill-based play, It appears that wasn't what bothered me. In fact, I just started playing Last Epoch, and I already miss WASD movement and dodging mechanics. (Just not rolling, though—it’s a stupid mechanic visually and a copy-paste from you-know-what. Rolling from danger looks dumb, and no one actually does that IRL.) But they’re just torturing us: with pointless running through empty spaces, pointless trips to The Hooded One to click two more pointless buttons to identify items that should just drop identified, don't get me started on The WELL. Do you enjoy running through Ultimatum spaces to get to the next fight? It’s just tedium upon tedium.

Why do we tolerate this pointless time-wasting? Is your time really of so little value?

Eidt2:
As for the "arcade" part of the game, I take back my initial critique. That part is fine—it’s the right direction (except the rolling visuals)
Learning bosses and dying to them would be perfectly fine if it weren’t for all the other slog. I wouldn’t mind spending an hour learning a boss if I hadn’t already wasted two hours just slogging through maps and running around town.

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

"

Wauxx#0810 wrote:

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

+1, these new accounts are such a joke they wont even be here in six months let alone a year when leagues start.

"

Erebus1800#6364 wrote:

"

Wauxx#0810 wrote:

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

+1, these new accounts are such a joke they wont even be here in six months let alone a year when leagues start.

Exactly. +1 to the OP

yeah i am done with this game for a good while

ive rolled several characters and gotten to various points in progress

almost all of them feel under powered no matter how much you craft/gamble

resists are a pain to get early on, layering defenses dont really do a whole lot when everything can aoe you or chunk your globe., or 1 shot you

but the only thing ggg cares about is "end game" cause thats all streamers complained about. becuase they will spend countless hours of their lives grinding "end game" so its all the care about

ggg built this game from the ground up for streamers.

keep the casuals out by making early gamer a fucking shit show. and let the streamers have their precious end game to grind on twitch for 18 hours a day

"

Wauxx#0810 wrote:

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

Exactly, I mentioned Last Epoch because of its mediocrity. I played for just a few minutes an hour ago and felt true physical relief after 2 hours in Path of Pain.

In PoE2, I created a cold sorceress because she was my favorite character in Diablo 2. I even gave her the same name as I did years ago when D2 launched. I refused to look up any builds or play anything other than a cold sorceress in PoE2 because every character build should be viable. But it’s not. It’s pure pain.

Have you noticed how every prominent streamer review goes? "PoE2 is great, the best aRPG on the market, here’s my list of 100 complaints"—they all sound exhausted.

"

vonMistont#4223 wrote:

"

Wauxx#0810 wrote:

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

Exactly, I mentioned Last Epoch because of its mediocrity. I played for just a few minutes an hour ago and felt true physical relief after 2 hours in Path of Pain.

In PoE2, I created a cold sorceress because she was my favorite character in Diablo 2. I even gave her the same name as I did years ago when D2 launched. I refused to look up any builds or play anything other than a cold sorceress in PoE2 because every character build should be viable. But it’s not. It’s pure pain.

Have you noticed how every prominent streamer review goes? "PoE2 is great, the best aRPG on the market, here’s my list of 100 complaints"—they all sound exhausted.

Well... that's their job. PoE 2 it's the new shiny thing and the "mindhive" said that this game can't be bad months before early access. All of PoE CCs can't stop playing PoE 2 and make content about the game, atleast until well past January, when the hype will die down a bit.

I think that mid-late January and February are going to be pretty BIG for this game. I still don't know if it will be good or bad, but a lot of CCs are going to change their views really fast after a few months.

I mean there is one example with one CC in particular (I don't remember the name) that said that there were too much negativity around the game and the loot was perfect just before GGG buffed the loot and had to say "you were right". I know he didn't do it with bad faith it's just really hard to be a PoE 2 content creator and criticise the game because, again, the "mindhive" thinks that this game is perfect and if you don't like it is "skill issue".

+1

It's tedious and boring, end game t15-16 maps are 10levels below my level and xp gain is near 0, die once due to any reason and I lose half a day to a complete day of progress. Not fun, why play a game that stresses you out?
End game needs higher leveled enemies the xp curve is crazy. People will complain like hell once they get there.

I grew up on Diablo 1. I'm really enjoying this game.