T17s are just bad, they need more rebalancing/changes or just delete them

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Moregaze wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

So no need to feel sad if you can't do it.

But while you can make good currency in easier content like T16s and be happy it is not really comparable to what you are able to make in extremely juiced t17s. T17s simply have naturally higher quant and packsize rolls and on top of that you roll more currency/scarabs/maps. End result is not comparable to anything else if done correctly. Unless you are doing something like essence farming which is not affected by quant nothing compares to t17s.

I'd say that's a good advice for OP and all the players with the struggles to clear t17 maps or make currency.
Cause like many other players I don't have problems to engage with normal and juiced t17 maps early into a fresh league.

It's bad advice. I've done both tiers, and T17s are far and away more rewarding on every level. You won't be doing them with full juice on non-meta builds. The dude arguing probably only plays Trickster or Lightning Strike and complains the game is too easy and they need T17s.

They were an absolute mistake and only kill build diversity. Every single strat is almost double profitability over a long average than in T16s except stuff like essence and beast farming. They both get next to no gold as you have to juice them up in lower-tier maps.

The game has been getting less and less rewarding for anyone not in the top 1% and it's abysmal for them to try to progress, when all the content they can do is constantly getting nerfed to try to reign in the top end.

They are against everything i wanted out of PoE when i originally started playing and even the reasons keeping me playing are being made irrelevant by content like this being the primary income source for a small percentage of the playerbase especially when taking into account build diversity.

Aspirational content should have its own rewards and not disturb the market in the way t17 are.

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Moregaze wrote:

It's bad advice.

It's actually a good advice for all the fomo folks to just deal with it and move on to something comparable like t16 maps, heist, delve or whatnot else they might enjoy to make currency if they struggle with t17.

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You won't be doing them with full juice on non-meta builds.

You'd be surprised but various players play non-meta builds and still farm full juiced t17 maps without the need of mirror tier gear.

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The dude arguing probably only plays Trickster or Lightning Strike and complains the game is too easy and they need T17s.

I mean the game became in fact pretty damn easy and gets trivialized day 2 by random ground level due to how much easier things became with the endless stacking of player power and no adjustments to content difficulty.

Even t17 maps already got hit by the double nerf special twice to the point that the content gets trivialized by players in various modes without any big or special gear.

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They were an absolute mistake and only kill build diversity.

Not really as you can still just play whatever ability you like, make a decent build out of it and still crush all the games content. t17 didn't really changed much about it. The only thing that t17 might did is it opened up some players eyes and made them realize that defensive layers are still a very important part of the build. Some get mad that they die at all times in t17 maps but they also run around on a glass cannon with not a single layer of any defense, so go figure it out why t17 are a problem for them.

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The game has been getting less and less rewarding for anyone not in the top 1% and it's abysmal for them to try to progress, when all the content they can do is constantly getting nerfed to try to reign in the top end.

All the previous content is unchanged and players can still gear up their characters in t16 without issues.
It's just nothing but a fomo problem because players would look at what others get and somehow feel entitled about the div/h ratio of others. In reality it's such a stupid metric people look at anyways.

Just look at all the ssf players for example and how easily they gear up to uber levels without the access to endless t17 maps, all the map juice at all times or even trade to begin with.

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Moregaze wrote:

It's bad advice. I've done both tiers, and T17s are far and away more rewarding on every level. You won't be doing them with full juice on non-meta builds. The dude arguing probably only plays Trickster or Lightning Strike and complains the game is too easy and they need T17s.

They were an absolute mistake and only kill build diversity. Every single strat is almost double profitability over a long average than in T16s except stuff like essence and beast farming. They both get next to no gold as you have to juice them up in lower-tier maps.

The game has been getting less and less rewarding for anyone not in the top 1% and it's abysmal for them to try to progress, when all the content they can do is constantly getting nerfed to try to reign in the top end.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. They'll probably readjust what drops gold and how much it drops next league anyway and if settlers town doesn't go core then players really won't care about gold either way since by the time you have a million sitting on your character you'll never run out no matter how often you use Faustus to trade. I dunno, t17s just suck for the game and I've decided to ignore that content and sell them all in bulk until something is done to fix them. Anything.

There is no reason to expect every solid build to be able to run all content in the game. In Poe you can adjust difficulty by different setups and make it challenging for everybody - from beginners to multi mirrors build owners. So guys complaining here that they can't run fully juiced titanic strats, just really run something else and stop comparing your builds with very high end top builds of some streamers.

T17s are not really difficult on its own - I would say just slightly more difficult than 8-mod T16s. What makes them difficult is juicing. So if you can run hard juiced T16s you can almost for sure run moderately juiced T17s. And there is lots of options how to run them - just adjust your strat to your possibilities and make most out of it. You will still make lots of currency which will allow you to improve your builds further and pump difficulty up. That said, I believe that not every build can tackle hardest content available. Like for example I am yet to see minion build which would be able to do it. So this should be taken into account when planning your build ofc. If you wanna beat it all then you need toon which has potential of doing it. And if T17s are not fun for you right now then there really are viable strategies even for T16s which will give you good currency and let you work on your build more.

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Pashid wrote:

You'd be surprised but various players play non-meta builds and still farm full juiced t17 maps without the need of mirror tier gear.

Yeah, but it is definitely not easy. Depends on what you mean by full juiced T17 maps. Many high end strategies includes high deli and some combo of scarabs of wisps and risk. I was running such a strats for a long time while not having mirror tier gear. And it is very challenging and often frustrating. But makes you want to improve your toon further, which is the point. And once you get mirrored tier gear it gets easier, but by no means easy. Like can you run T17s with let's say 4 deli orbs on it, 2 scarabs of wisps and 3 scarabs of risk? While ofc having all explicit increases allocated - but that should be ofc part of almost every strategy.

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Pashid wrote:

I mean the game became in fact pretty damn easy and gets trivialized day 2 by random ground level due to how much easier things became with the endless stacking of player power and no adjustments to content difficulty.

Even t17 maps already got hit by the double nerf special twice to the point that the content gets trivialized by players in various modes without any big or special gear.

Again, this depends on what you call game. Running through campaign? Completing challenges? Those are no measure of difficulty by any means ofc. Poe is all about endgame for most people and that can be made very hard as I said before. Most complaining here about game being too easy is done by people with very mediocre builds put together for stack of alch orbs and couple chaos. Which are definitely not capable of running really hard content. I call them experienced beginners - someone who is under impression that completing challenges is some ultimate goal of the game and if he can put together cheap build capable of doing it he beat it all. Content don't need difficulty adjustment as it is very hard already now with certain setups. I would want to see everyone not happy with difficulty to run this, set up to the letter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT3piG4ZXUM . And posting video of them running it. Afterwards i would be able to take these claims somewhat seriously.

I guess ggg can very easily check what content are people complaining about difficulty running and how relevant therefore their claims are.

And again for all unhappy they can't run it all. It is all about doing good and rewarding strategy according to what you are able to run at any given time. Improve your build, adjust strategy to bit more difficult and rewarding and do it all over again. And eventually you should be able to build something what will allow you to run your dream content if you invest enough time. If you don't make it this league then you will do better next league and even better the one after.

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BadAssTom wrote:

I guess ggg can very easily check what content are people complaining about difficulty running and how relevant therefore their claims are.

And again for all unhappy they can't run it all. It is all about doing good and rewarding strategy according to what you are able to run at any given time. Improve your build, adjust strategy to bit more difficult and rewarding and do it all over again. And eventually you should be able to build something what will allow you to run your dream content if you invest enough time. If you don't make it this league then you will do better next league and even better the one after.

They should check, and rebalance it accordingly. Because right now t17s just break the economy too much, not to mention they give way more gold than t16s and that just sucks.

And the problem with trying to make a build that's "t17 viable" is that it usually costs like 400 divines just for the mageblood and nimis, and another 100-300 divines possibly for forbidden flesh,forbidden flame. That would already take me weeks to farm and for most players it's unattainable because they don't make that much currency in an entire league lol
These maps are so bad for build diversity and it's just not fun game design to have to farm such a ridiculous amount of currency just to not be annoyed by every little thing in these maps while doing them. I'd rather just sell them all. So if the intention of these maps was to make players completely ignore the content, well they've succeeded at that.

Aspirational content should be optional(there's a reason nobody cares if they can or can't do uber bosses, their drops are static AND you can just buy the item from someone else. they do not break the economy completely like t17s. so they're truly optional content unlike t17s atm), people should only do t17s for one reason: to farm uber boss fragments and do uber bosses. Right now that is not the reason they do it, they do it for insanely busted loot exploits that will probably get some scarabs nerfed or deleted later lol. It should just be bossing content that's truly optional and then you will see way less people complain. Again the most simple solution is to just make them into boss invitations for each t17 map boss and it would be fine.

T17's are great how they are, that's just a fact

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Piousqd wrote:

T17's are great how they are, that's just a fact

how can your opinion be a fact? its just an opinion. i could say that they are terrible and thats just a fact

[Removed by Support]

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Toforto wrote:

They should check, and rebalance it accordingly. Because right now t17s just break the economy too much, not to mention they give way more gold than t16s and that just sucks.

Yeah, they give more gold and that might be upsetting if you are not able to keep that damn town running. I think this league mechanic is pathetic tbh. If you can call it mechanic at all. I was not gonna bother with it at all until i found out that 50 mil shipments give mirror shards so that is what i do now. Send about once a week a shipment. But I would definitely prefer enjoyable mechanic which would make gameplay more fun before getting free currency without any meaningful mechanic at all.

But otherwise I don't see how t17s break economy. I personally pick up basically only scarabs and currency in t17s. And i sell lots of scarabs. I imagine most peple do the same. And that should be a good thing imo as there is simply enough scarabs on trade site. I would imagine that if people were not running t17s there would be pretty big scarcity and prices sky high. Basically more of something is on for trade cheaper it is so not sure why that should break the economy. T17s are just making rich richer, but that should not really affect anyone who is not running them.

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Toforto wrote:

And the problem with trying to make a build that's "t17 viable" is that it usually costs like 400 divines just for the mageblood and nimis, and another 100-300 divines possibly for forbidden flesh,forbidden flame. That would already take me weeks to farm and for most players it's unattainable because they don't make that much currency in an entire league lol

Ok, but if that is what it takes for your build to shine then that is what you need to do. You really do have to make quite a lot of currency in poe to be able to build something great. And if someone can't play much then they can't expect reaching same results as people who can. League is long and I don't think getting mageblood is some unbreakable barrier even if you don't play that much. I got mageblood quite a while ago by farming maps in t16s and it did not even take that long.

Plus there are also builds which you can put together for pretty cheap and they can do well in lots of content. Including moderately juiced T17s. Basically imo if you can run well juiced 8-mod corrupted T16s you should be able to run not overly juiced t17s, carefully rolled.

And you don't seem to be doing bad btw. What t17s setup have you been trying to run?

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

T17's are great how they are, that's just a fact

how can your opinion be a fact? its just an opinion. i could say that they are terrible and thats just a fact

[Removed by Support]

Its definitely a fact, and 99.999% of people around agree with me.

What is it with people on the forum being unable to pick up on sarcasm. My statement was obviously a jab at some of the replies in this thread who continue to cite their option as "facts" and make up statistics.

erm your sarcasm is def not obvious...there was a thread in general discu also where people missed your "sarcasm"