T17s are just bad, they need more rebalancing/changes or just delete them

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exsea wrote:

i think t17s are "fine" but with the caveat that their content always remains optional.

problem is the drops are NOT optional. some unique stuff are gated behind uber pinnacles hence t17s become "not too" optional. the caveat is we can buy the gear we need from other players.

i would suggest something else instead.

future league contents be balanced based of T16 maps. being able to run t17 should be a reward in itself.

this is prominent in settlers. run t16 with a random atlas strat, you can get 5-10k gold.

run an optimized strat and juiced t16 can give around 50k gold. t17s can give 50-200k gold when juiced.

for "weaker" players to farm t16s alc and go 10 ish times to get the same amount of gold from 1 t17 is such a huge difference.

While ofc harder content is going to be more rewarding, gold included, T16's are more competitive than you suggest. When running titanic rogue exiles in T16 8-mod, I regularly get over 100k gold a map.

Something people often overlook when saying that T17s are way more rewarding than T16s is the different scarab setups. You don't see any videos or strats using Glittering or Bloodlines scarabs in T16's because of the high cost, people want to use thes eexclusively in T17's because it is the most profitable. But if you did run them in T16s you would find that the loot being dropped is alot closer to T17s than you might think

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Piousqd wrote:

While ofc harder content is going to be more rewarding, gold included, T16's are more competitive than you suggest. When running titanic rogue exiles in T16 8-mod, I regularly get over 100k gold a map.

Something people often overlook when saying that T17s are way more rewarding than T16s is the different scarab setups. You don't see any videos or strats using Glittering or Bloodlines scarabs in T16's because of the high cost, people want to use thes eexclusively in T17's because it is the most profitable. But if you did run them in T16s you would find that the loot being dropped is alot closer to T17s than you might think

The thing is, that titanic strat requires insane multiple-mirror builds with every defense layer in the game+ millions of dps to even do. I tried it once, the exiles are way too fast, way too tanky and way too rippy I killed like 2 and left the map lol, its a complete joke.

You need a character that could easily do t17s, to do a start in t16s that's competitive with t17 strats for gold and loot. Weird paradox isn't it.


T17s were a mistake, and should be deleted.

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Toforto wrote:

The thing is, that titanic strat requires insane multiple-mirror builds with every defense layer in the game+ millions of dps to even do.

Source?

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I tried it once, the exiles are way too fast, way too tanky and way too rippy I killed like 2 and left the map lol, its a complete joke.

Time to reinvest your build as the glass cannon solution is just not all content viable.

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T17s were a mistake, and should be deleted.

Using a low investment glass cannon league starter build with no defensive layers is the actual problem here.

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Pashid wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

The thing is, that titanic strat requires insane multiple-mirror builds with every defense layer in the game+ millions of dps to even do.

Source?

"

I tried it once, the exiles are way too fast, way too tanky and way too rippy I killed like 2 and left the map lol, its a complete joke.

Time to reinvest your build as the glass cannon solution is just not all content viable.

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T17s were a mistake, and should be deleted.

Using a low investment glass cannon league starter build with no defensive layers is the actual problem here.

I don't need a source, it's obvious what kinds of builds you need for titanic strats, just look at every youtube video guide and what kind of character they use. And every streamer doing it. They all have perfect mirror gear.

The problem is t17s, which is why this and many other threads exist complaining about them. The maps suck, that's a simple fact. Like more than 80% of players hate running and rolling them and the game would be better off if they were just deleted. It's clear that they can't be balanced properly while all the crazy % loot multipliers exist. Again I've said all I need to say about these maps, I've laid out all the problems with them. All I have to do is wait for them to be properly balanced, nothing else.

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Toforto wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

The thing is, that titanic strat requires insane multiple-mirror builds with every defense layer in the game+ millions of dps to even do.

Source?

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I tried it once...

GGG gutted t17s into the ground but that's not enough. The OP's actually stating people are "printing mirrors and using literal exploits"

Who in the world are you talking about? Are you talking about people using the same Strongbox strategy the last several years but now without MF, though on T17s? What currency printing are you actually speaking about? 10-20D strategies have been out for years and now even people like fubgun are only getting 25D per hour while exclusively farming T17's. Agan, who, are, you, talking, about?

You constantly state what you're saying is fact and you even state don't need sources.

Is this a troll thread?

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Toforto wrote:

I don't need a source, it's obvious what kinds of builds you need for titanic strats, just look at every youtube video guide and what kind of character they use. And every streamer doing it. They all have perfect mirror gear.

Yea it's very obvious for the normal player that a well balanced and optimized character with decent gear is more than enough to farm this type of content.
Players have farmed this shit in ssf without any access to mirror tier gear what so ever pretty early in the league by the way lol.

But as you've figured out most trade league content creator run around with mirror tier gear. Be a shame to not have mirror tier gear with 12h+ a day of optimized playtime.

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hmcg020 wrote:

Is this a troll thread?

Nah, it's just a fomo topic created because a bad optimized and also outdated build hit a wall with t17 maps and juiced t17 maps.

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Pashid wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

I don't need a source, it's obvious what kinds of builds you need for titanic strats, just look at every youtube video guide and what kind of character they use. And every streamer doing it. They all have perfect mirror gear.

Yea it's very obvious for the normal player that a well balanced and optimized character with decent gear is more than enough to farm this type of content.
Players have farmed this shit in ssf without any access to mirror tier gear what so ever pretty early in the league by the way lol.

But as you've figured out most trade league content creator run around with mirror tier gear. Be a shame to not have mirror tier gear with 12h+ a day of optimized playtime.

OP is probably talking specifically about Fubgun's unique farm and it is extremely unlikely that anyone is running this kind of content pretty early in the game in ssf. But I do not think it is wrong that one of the most challenging strats cannot be run by every well balanced and optimized character with decent gear. It really gives people with multi mirrors builds something challenging to do.

And there is obvisouly more setups which many well optimized builds can't really even come close to. Fubgun's farm is not even really that profitable, more to feel the challenge and bragging rights. Now maybe better as glittering scarab is way cheaper than it used to be but still nothing amazing. So no need to feel sad if you can't do it.

But while you can make good currency in easier content like T16s and be happy it is not really comparable to what you are able to make in extremely juiced t17s. T17s simply have naturally higher quant and packsize rolls and on top of that you roll more currency/scarabs/maps. End result is not comparable to anything else if done correctly. Unless you are doing something like essence farming which is not affected by quant nothing compares to t17s.

Early in the league i was complaining that base drop rate sucks. And I meant by it that unless you can juice like crazy loot is not worth much. And bunch of people were explaining to me how great it is. Well, it is not but I decided there is no point in arguing with someone who has never been able to run content that difficult and rewarding to really know the difference. But there is difference and it is pretty massive.

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BadAssTom wrote:

So no need to feel sad if you can't do it.

But while you can make good currency in easier content like T16s and be happy it is not really comparable to what you are able to make in extremely juiced t17s. T17s simply have naturally higher quant and packsize rolls and on top of that you roll more currency/scarabs/maps. End result is not comparable to anything else if done correctly. Unless you are doing something like essence farming which is not affected by quant nothing compares to t17s.

I'd say that's a good advice for OP and all the players with the struggles to clear t17 maps or make currency.
Cause like many other players I don't have problems to engage with normal and juiced t17 maps early into a fresh league.

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Pashid wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

So no need to feel sad if you can't do it.

But while you can make good currency in easier content like T16s and be happy it is not really comparable to what you are able to make in extremely juiced t17s. T17s simply have naturally higher quant and packsize rolls and on top of that you roll more currency/scarabs/maps. End result is not comparable to anything else if done correctly. Unless you are doing something like essence farming which is not affected by quant nothing compares to t17s.

I'd say that's a good advice for OP and all the players with the struggles to clear t17 maps or make currency.
Cause like many other players I don't have problems to engage with normal and juiced t17 maps early into a fresh league.

It's bad advice. I've done both tiers, and T17s are far and away more rewarding on every level. You won't be doing them with full juice on non-meta builds. The dude arguing probably only plays Trickster or Lightning Strike and complains the game is too easy and they need T17s.

They were an absolute mistake and only kill build diversity. Every single strat is almost double profitability over a long average than in T16s except stuff like essence and beast farming. They both get next to no gold as you have to juice them up in lower-tier maps.

The game has been getting less and less rewarding for anyone not in the top 1% and it's abysmal for them to try to progress, when all the content they can do is constantly getting nerfed to try to reign in the top end.