T17s are just bad, they need more rebalancing/changes or just delete them

Adding to the pile of threads already asking for this. These maps are clearly hurting the game more than they are helping it. They further divide players and make the rich players who print mirrors even richer. Also making the economy worse with all the literal exploits in them for loot.

The uber boss keystones were better, the game was better before these maps. They also released in a ridiculous state of not being able to be rolled. So many people complain about them, it's not about "skill issue" or "fomo" if even people with min-maxed expensive builds say these maps suck. And the monster design, the bosses, the map mods. I've said it all a thousand times before, I won't bother repeating myself. Everyone knows how bad all these things are. Then these maps simply suck.

If they were truly optional content, just like uber bossses, then there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints imo. They were meant to be a "bridge" between normal endgame and ubers, that so far has never been the case so these maps have completely failed at that. They are still harder than uber bosses.

At this point stop trying to balance them, scrap the maps entirely and just make it so random invitations to the 5 t17 bosses drop just like a searing exarch invitation, and all of them are rollable with all currency, so you can do them with 0 mods if you so desire or make them rare for more loot from the boss. And they just load you into the boss arena, you do a boss and you get fragments to do uber bosses. Simple progression, and they would prepare you for harder bosses too.
That or just revert it back to the uber boss keystones until either t17s get properly figured out and balanced to be put into the game as optional content that does not ruin the economy, ooor just don't put them back in at all.


Clearly many people dislike these maps, they've done so much damage to the game and most likely made a lot of players ragequit too. But all I can do is wait for them to fix this issue and until then, completely ignore the content and just sell all my t17s in bulk.

i agree but at this point i dont think they will remove them. which is fine i guess as long as they dont add maps that are even worse, like t18's lol. i ran over 30 of these maps just to see what the fuss is about but they are just not fun to run or to roll so i started selling them. i think i was selling 5 sanctuary for 4 divines or something like that back when i was still playing so they can still be profitable for those of us who dont enjoy running them but since scarabs prices are based on these maps, removing them would be better overall for the economy.

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

i agree but at this point i dont think they will remove them. which is fine i guess as long as they dont add maps that are even worse, like t18's lol. i ran over 30 of these maps just to see what the fuss is about but they are just not fun to run or to roll so i started selling them. i think i was selling 5 sanctuary for 4 divines or something like that back when i was still playing so they can still be profitable for those of us who dont enjoy running them but since scarabs prices are based on these maps, removing them would be better overall for the economy.

Yep, its exactly why I'm just gonna sell all of mine from now on. Always people paying lots of divines for these maps in bulk, that + Faustus selling my scarabs will be lots of free currency next league so it's gonna be easy to get all the gear I want. For players like me and many others that's simply the most profitable thing to do, which shows just how flawed the rewards and balancing on these maps are. The top-end .1% can farm insane loot from them yet the other 90%+ of players make more profit from just selling the maps to other players.

If they wanted the majority of players to completely ignore and skip these maps, well t17s succeeded in doing exactly that.

Mark said in the last Q&A that he is aware that the t17 mods are a controversial thing but he believes they are a good thing because they actually make you think about whether you want to run a map or not. Using that as the basis there might be a slight chance that they get weakened a little more, at least some of them but we probably shouldn't get our hopes up for them to get removed entirely. So yeah, i don't expect them to become fun content anytime soon.

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Toforto wrote:

The top-end .1% can farm insane loot from them yet the other 90%+ of players make more profit from just selling the maps to other players.

Where do you get this top 0.1% number from?

I would bet its more like 30% of players over lvl 95 are regularly running some t17s, and 75%+ lvl100 of players

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Piousqd wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

The top-end .1% can farm insane loot from them yet the other 90%+ of players make more profit from just selling the maps to other players.

Where do you get this top 0.1% number from?

I would bet its more like 30% of players over lvl 95 are regularly running some t17s, and 75%+ lvl100 of players

Nobody knows except ggg. If they release the stats of how many people actually engage with t17s it's gonna be some super low % lol

It's just a metaphor/hyperbole anyway, it conveys what I want it to convey. The feeling of these maps being made for the 0.1% and nobody else. And I'm not the only one that feels this way. The vast majority of players still hate these maps.


None of this matters anyway, the maps are bad and need to be rebalanced or deleted. That's a simple fact. I don't care anymore, I will ignore this content until its fixed.

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Toforto wrote:

None of this matters anyway, the maps are bad and need to be rebalanced or deleted. That's a simple fact. I don't care anymore, I will ignore this content until its fixed.

You might feel this way but as a matter of fact, opinions - yours included - are just that, opinions, and not facts.

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Toforto wrote:

Yep, its exactly why I'm just gonna sell all of mine from now on. Always people paying lots of divines for these maps in bulk,

You realize if you got your way and they nerfed T17's, then farming the maps for sale wouldn't be a viable strategy anymore right?

Farming T17 drops in T16's is an incredible currency generation strategy made possible by the loot T17's generate.

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Piousqd wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

Yep, its exactly why I'm just gonna sell all of mine from now on. Always people paying lots of divines for these maps in bulk,

You realize if you got your way and they nerfed T17's, then farming the maps for sale wouldn't be a viable strategy anymore right?

Farming T17 drops in T16's is an incredible currency generation strategy made possible by the loot T17's generate.

Yes, and I want that to happen. I have no trouble making currency, I barely even spec into map drop nodes on the atlas tree. I don't actively farm t17s, I just sell them when they stack up in my stash for some extra passive divines. It isn't my main way of making currency though, I just play the game and focus on challenges and sell all my scarabs plus any other drops I get. That's how I always make all of my currency.


T17s should just be boss invitations to the rooms of the t17 map bosses that drop uber fragments. This would fix all the problems with the maps. Or you know, just delete them and revert everything to how it was before with uber boss keystones, it would literally be a net positive for the game and would only improve it. Nobody wants these maps, it's clear that like 80% of the playerbase doesn't like t17s and they couldn't fix them even with like 3 major reworks and nerfs. The only logical thing to do is to just either make them boss invitations, or straight up delete them from the game. And if they don't do either then I can just wait it out until they get nerfed enough. I'm fine with that. Doesn't mean I won't complain about the maps every single time I have any negative experience with them though. I'm just giving my feedback about how clearly overtuned and broken these maps are. And I'm not the only one saying it.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Mark said in the last Q&A that he is aware that the t17 mods are a controversial thing but he believes they are a good thing because they actually make you think about whether you want to run a map or not. Using that as the basis there might be a slight chance that they get weakened a little more, at least some of them but we probably shouldn't get our hopes up for them to get removed entirely. So yeah, i don't expect them to become fun content anytime soon.

Fun is very subjective here (and in general, google the fun scale).


T17's can be incredibly frustrating for me, I hate dying. But I love making currency, and I love loot pings and maximizing jackpot opportunities, all of which T17's provide (at the cost of more deaths)

Tips for enjoyment:

-Build a regex to roll your maps
-Don't get greedy, if the map has great loot rolls but a mod you know you can't/wouldnt normally do, either list it for sale or reroll it.
-Again, don't be greedy. Just because your fav streamer uses x2 wisp scarabs and x4 deli orbs, doesnt mean you have to. Do what you can handle. Profit. Buy better gear, increase difficulty. Repeat.
-Alternate T17's with T16's or other content/activities. After 20 T17's or so, I'm ready for a break. I do a T16 strat, temple corruptions, kingsbridge upkeep, crafting, etc.