Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

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Echothesis wrote:

Playing non-meta is perfectly fine in terms of getting through content and eventually getting challenges/achievements. But in terms of accumulating wealth, meta-based glass cannons are encouraged more than any alternatives.

Wrong, accumulating wealth is just a knowledge check as you can even print insane amounts of currency with a non meta build if you know of what you are doing.
Or how do you think people in ssf manage to get their stuff done even while playing non meta builds or the ability to use trade?
They simply know their stuff and in a trade scenario it's not any different as you'll be more than fine as long as you know the bare bone basics of the content you're doing for either self found stuff or currency printing.

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trixxar wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I am fairly confident i can undercut most meta builds in terms of cost efficiency with my selfmade stuff.

But how many hours do you have in the game?

Lets break it down, Im curious where people actually disagree. This is what I am saying:


1 - I agree its 1000% possible to use almost all skills, with varying degree of effort, gear, expertise and in-game movement skill.

2 - Expertise which comes with thousands of hours in the game can allow you to create builds that others dont use, or arent meta. Like, say, Mathil.

3 - New players will almost always fail in making new builds and not following the meta due to not understand game mechanics, items, value, etc.

4 - Mid to somewhat experienced players will generally have to put more work into their builds than if they followed build guides for the meta.

5 - Very experienced players >2500 hrs can probably make whatever they want work, but again more effort/time/build crafting, if possibly less cost, than the meta



So where do you disagree? The picture above does not say "Play meta or fail", but it does say "The meta is encouraged, by group knowledge, barrier to new build creation, ability to spend a length amount of time optimizing PoBs, and other factors like more items supporting the meta being up for trade".

Who knows, i've been playing since 2018 on and off, quite intensively between legion and harvest. So yeah i've got a fair amount of experience under my belt. Then again, there are plenty of players with more experience that can't make their own builds because they never cared to learn it.

If you put it like above, there is nothing i really disagree with. I disagree with the general sentiment that you need to play meta to have success. Both in the form of "meta is always more efficient" and the more ridiculous version "only meta works everything else is unviable". If you don't fall into either of those categories then there is probably no disagreement. Your response to Auspexas post looked a bit like you are in the first category.

/edit Maybe to clarify on your 5th point. Yes, i takes time and effort to come up with a build idea and hammer out the details in POB. If you just copy a build from somewhere you obviously don't have that time and effort. BUT, you are just outsourcing it. The streamer ultimately had to put in the effort instead. So while i agree it's more convienient for you to just copy i don't think that makes the streamers meta build "better" in any sort or form. I also don't see it as work to make my build, it's part of the fun. If you feel it's work then i guess copying is better but the perception here is entirely subjective.

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Pashid wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

Playing non-meta is perfectly fine in terms of getting through content and eventually getting challenges/achievements. But in terms of accumulating wealth, meta-based glass cannons are encouraged more than any alternatives.

Wrong, accumulating wealth is just a knowledge check as you can even print insane amounts of currency with a non meta build if you know of what you are doing.
Or how do you think people in ssf manage to get their stuff done even while playing non meta builds or the ability to use trade? They simply know their stuff and in a trade scenario it's not any different as you'll be more than fine as long as you know the bare bone basics of the content you're doing for either self found stuff or currency printing.

This is a very big if. How long did you play poe before you started to "know what you are doing"? You are thinking only about interests of those who already bashed through this wall, I think about accommodating more diverse playerbase.

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Echothesis wrote:

This is a very big if. How long did you play poe before you started to "know what you are doing"? You are thinking only about interests of those who already bashed through this wall, I think about accommodating more diverse playerbase.

It's not any different than any other game as you learn everything on the fly by just playing the game. One or two leagues and you should know all the basic interactions of the game and have at least some knowledge about the build you've played along with how the defense and offensive scaling of your build works.

Sure nobody masters a game on day one but people who are around for a bit should have more than enough knowledge about anything they care about especially nowadays with everything being all already sorted out and accessible for everyone to quickly look up and read.

If the games basics are still "too hard" after months of playing or even years you might be better of to pick a different game or genre if you're not willed to learn or improve yourself or simply just get better at whatever you're doing.
Most games have always been like this that you as a player have to put at least some effort into your playtime to learn something and PoE is not any different to all the other games out there.

For the vast majority of the player base, glass cannon playstyle is probably one of the worst decisions they would ever make.

Since you came to the correct assumption they follow the meta. And the meta is not glass.


You realize how many posts we would see about people not being able to even get through the campaign?

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Echothesis wrote:

Playing non-meta is perfectly fine in terms of getting through content and eventually getting challenges/achievements. But in terms of accumulating wealth, meta-based glass cannons are encouraged more than any alternatives.

Poe is either "trade all", or "full SSF", without party, latter makes SSF a no-go for many players who otherwise not interested in full-scale trading and flipping. Introducing account bound loot for aspirational content in trade leagues can solve the problem of "we have to balance uber bosses damage and lootrates around top 1% to at least slow down spamming".

You don't really need to be "meta-based" to generate wealth as long as you can reach enough dps, move speed and some baseline defenses. I mean, I haven't seen a single charge stacking chaos power siphon ballista occultist, lol.

What you really need is a good farming strat that is compatible with your build and is something you also enjoy. I think that is the key and one of the hardest thing to figure out in this game.


About account bound loot. It's a double-edged sword. Many players who can't kill ubers would loose even the slightest opportunity to obtain certain items. Sure, nowadays you have to pay over a hundred divs for a nimis, but if you can't kill uber eater, you can still gather the divines and buy it. So there's that.

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gabpla111 wrote:

About account bound loot. It's a double-edged sword. Many players who can't kill ubers would loose even the slightest opportunity to obtain certain items. Sure, nowadays you have to pay over a hundred divs for a nimis, but if you can't kill uber eater, you can still gather the divines and buy it. So there's that.

In the current state of uber bosses and T17 bosses, yeah, agree. But if those bosses stop being a part of economy, their dps check floor can be made more accessible too. And no need to constantly adjust lootrates either. To have a layer of content only 5% players benefit from is not healthy in the first place.

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Pashid wrote:

It's not any different than any other game as you learn everything on the fly by just playing the game. One or two leagues and you should know all the basic interactions of the game and have at least some knowledge about the build you've played along with how the defense and offensive scaling of your build works.

Sure nobody masters a game on day one but people who are around for a bit should have more than enough knowledge about anything they care about especially nowadays with everything being all already sorted out and accessible for everyone to quickly look up and read.

If the games basics are still "too hard" after months of playing or even years you might be better of to pick a different game or genre if you're not willed to learn or improve yourself or simply just get better at whatever you're doing.
Most games have always been like this that you as a player have to put at least some effort into your playtime to learn something and PoE is not any different to all the other games out there.

Formally, you are not wrong. In fact, poe does a poor job of explaining itself to player. You have to consult wiki on pretty much every mechanic, modifier, and gem, to be sure how it actually works and not screw up. And after that you still need convoluted build planner before you start playing. Then you have to use 3rd party tools to regularly buy scarabs for your chosen loot strategy (learned from 3rd party source too), and to sell your loot.

Account-bound should never ever be a part of this game. People who suggest this are mad

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Account-bound should never ever be a part of this game. People who suggest this are mad

This is so narrow and unspecified that it tells people nothing at all.

We have had several examples of account bound stuff in PoE over the years, gold being the latest. Skill books, charms (in league), unique Heist contracts are other examples.

I LOVE that gold is account bound, and the fact that it's account bound is probably the only reason they added it to the game in the first place. It REALLY does serve a purpose it couldn't do if it wasn't account bound. Am I "mad" for liking gold?

When it comes to items; I agree. Account bound items are dangerous in a game centered around an economy. Cold powerful, expensive, account bound bench crafts work in PoE? Sure, it COULD. Lets take the Rune enchants as an example: Would the game crumble and fall if they were "removed on trade"?