Reminder: Selectable Character Gender is a "Minimum Bar."

Every people who give a shit about genderlock are here.

Good thing people in this thread aren't managing GGG money they'd waste so much and we wouldn't see poe 2 for years.

This is a fantasy arpg, If ggg can do gender select cool, whatever, if not cause of costs or they prefer that each class to have a defined back story, guess what there will be plenty of male or female characters for you to select, no need to be demanding arbitrary minimum requirements which is only your opinion anyway.

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Kick_DarkAngel wrote:

This is a fantasy arpg, If ggg can do gender select cool, whatever, if not cause of costs or they prefer that each class to have a defined back story, guess what there will be plenty of male or female characters for you to select, no need to be demanding arbitrary minimum requirements which is only your opinion anyway.

But what about the 3 potential players they might get?

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1453R wrote:

Do you want me to go through this thread and rewrite every single post I've written to be kind and generous and supportive of the people who keep telling me I'm a terrible human being for wanting something they don't think is important, Art?

When I asked you "how do I fix this?", that's largely what you said to me. You told me to retroactively go back in time and change my presentation to be sweet and endearing, in a way that was in fact impossible to do as per our current understanding of the universe. But here. let me try. I will go fetch my first post in this thread and rewrite it, and we will see what you think:

[...]

1st paragraph: no, I don't.

2nd paragraph: no, I didn't.

You keep attributing things I didn't say and didn't mean. You asked me what went wrong and I gave you my honest thoughts. There's a coaching method called a feedback burger. You start with something nice, then comes the meat (i.e. actual criticism / something negative) and then you loop back to something positive. You draw sympathy, get your point across, and end on a good note.

Your opening post was the opposite.

Now, you can't change what happened, but you can learn from it. Maybe next time will be better and the discussion more fruitful. I'm officially done with this thread now, bye

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Warvald wrote:

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Kick_DarkAngel wrote:

This is a fantasy arpg, If ggg can do gender select cool, whatever, if not cause of costs or they prefer that each class to have a defined back story, guess what there will be plenty of male or female characters for you to select, no need to be demanding arbitrary minimum requirements which is only your opinion anyway.

But what about the 3 potential players they might get?

Not really worth it, word on the street is they only have like 50-70% retention anyway 🤣

Honestly tho, I do understand that it's an aRPG. But I feel like that what people do wrong is try to see themselves as the character they are playing. I mean, whatever floats their boats but it's childish, playing pretend. And I think it comes from the media-fake perception and representation of nerd culture. I don't think I know anyone that would honestly say "I am now Sheldor, Destroyer of the Universe, Wielder of the Giant Purple Rubber ... Destroyer? Fear my wrath..." and shit like that. Well, scratch that, maybe except for a few of them that play D&D ... Maybe? I'll have to ask if they play it as "I try to jump across the lava pit" or "He tries to jump across the lava pit"

When I have a chance to create a character, I create as unrealisticly attractive female character as I have a chance to. And no - I am not a woman. I just like eye candy when I am supposed to spend hundreds of hours with the character. But that's it - I am spending time with the character, not as the character. I am the one that gets to control their universe. I am the puppet master and they are my marionettes.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Dude it's 3am and I'm meant to be editing, so yeah. I am probably a bit too edgy right now but ArtCrusade made a damn good point and I am happy to engage with that. The rest...well, now I know We Are Not Alone, I will not engage. Especially not people who think they're being clever and smart and not merely facetious and contentious. ;)

Just had to speak my mind on the Indie subject, because a lot of people seem to believe anything that isn't Triple-A or the newly invented (and totally loony) Quadruple-A warrants the Indie label, lol.

And I sincerely hope you don't have a stake in Star Citizen LOL.

Fuck no, Brother/Sister/Exile. I actually went to a Chris Roberts panel in I think it was 2013 or 14. I was at the convention to meet or hang out with a different Chris and his peeps (we had some banger Exile meetups at Pax Aus back then), but also deeply curious about the whole 'return of the Wing Commander great' hype. The girlfriend was like, 'this is gonna be bad' and sure enough it was.

So this one time I was kinda dragged to a cult meeting in my uni days. They NEVER say it's a cult meeting, do they? Of course not. It's always 'a philosophical group' or 'open-minded discussion circle'. Yeah nah, totally a cult meeting. Anyway, the Star Citizen panel had that same energy TIMES A MILLION. Whatever Roberts said was taken as gospel and manna from heaven. Every janky demo on the giant screen might as well have been the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai. We weren't quite using the word 'cringe' as an adjective then but good grief, that's the word for it.

And that was way back before it even made a hundred million I think. The CIG grift is *legendary*.

Oh, it was 2013 I think. The Exile meetup after the convention was at a German beer hall, and then somehow we ended up at another bar and I made an idiot of myself at the not-yet-famous-because-Australian-Internet-couldn't-stream Steelmage at 1am. It was fun.

Anyway, yeah. It should go without saying but PoE is the only game I went ham on with the support. I wouldn't put ten cents into Star Citizen.

___

I suppose we need a new term then. Indie will always represent a certain 'go get 'em, tiger' energy. A little engine that could. PoE had it. Last Epoch had it. I do believe that both started indie for sure. But what is 'indie' short for? Independent. Are you really 'independent' if a huge megacorp has bought you? 'Course not. Are you independent if you court a megacorp for a minority share? Probably.

But then we have different ideas of independent, right? Financial and creative. GGG is not financially independent anymore. But creatively? I do think Tencent are smart enough to leave the GGG devs to their own devices most of the time. If it ain't broke and all that.

But then we have the Star Citizens, and the Genshins, and the LoLs. The empire-makers. For them I would use the word 'self-published' because that's literally what they are (developer+publisher in one). And that term, unlike 'indie', no longer assumes something isn't a huge fucking hit hooking millions of consumers.

But that's just me. This is an ongoing debate among much bigger movers and shakers in the industry. Gamers though? Honestly, they shouldn't care that much. A good game is a good game. Pay for what you like, support what you enjoy. It's impossible to be both a moral and satisfied gamer now, at least not without planting your head very deep into the sand of a twilight strand.

Oh, you took the term 'minimum bar' from Jonathan himself?

HA, that explains the inverted commas. Nice.

Well then. He brought this one on himself. Not that I think he cares, or indeed has time or energy to care. If you see gender+class in PoE 2, it'll be because someone working for him has made clear it's a good financial decision.

See this breath I'm not holding? Yeah.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Oh, you took the term 'minimum bar' from Jonathan himself?

HA, that explains the inverted commas. Nice.

I mean, I feel like I said exactly that at least fifteen times in the thread. Blahggle. But yeh, "Minimum Bar" is Jonathan's words, not mine. It's a correct assertion - there's things PoE2 needs to do if Grinding Gear wants to call it a Modern ARPG. I'm just frustrated at some of the things he decides to omit from his bars, minimum or otherwise.

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1453R wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Oh, you took the term 'minimum bar' from Jonathan himself?

HA, that explains the inverted commas. Nice.

I mean, I feel like I said exactly that at least fifteen times in the thread. Blahggle. But yeh, "Minimum Bar" is Jonathan's words, not mine. It's a correct assertion - there's things PoE2 needs to do if Grinding Gear wants to call it a Modern ARPG. I'm just frustrated at some of the things he decides to omit from his bars, minimum or otherwise.

...Confession: I hit reply before I finish reading posts. Did it just now. The brain wants to say a lot, and I don't always get around to absorbing all of it. Sorry about that.

I promise I'd be more diligent if a) there was money riding on it or b) I had to then write a formal, peer-reviewed response.

You're gonna lose this one I reckon, but damn if you didn't win the 'I made a good thread' award. I should know: I'm the OG master of making losing arguments on here that produce a lot of great discussion.

I'd say I'm the anti-you-know-who, but that's...just not fair to me.

See you in Wræclast next year I guess...

Seems like this thread ran its course a dozen times over at this point..