why GGG change vision/philosophy? poe1 will die for poe2?

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3087148

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If you uncover an exploit in Path of Exile and abuse it for your benefit, we will ban you.

Soooo...
BEFOORE: ulti gave trash items and was fixed fast = bans
present: 3.24 allow dupe/print/whatever to abuse exploits 14 mir in ONE DAY while fixed only after 3 weeks LOL!
also party dupe Inscribed Ultimatums in some crazy amounts and fixed ONLY after 1.5 months
also sockets abuse for almost 2 months LOL
+ aloooooooooooooot more bugs + exploits that alot used = no bans

wanna kno why GGG changed their vision/philosophy on abusin exploits for their benefits and NOT ban bots, exploiters, bug abusers? why it become possible from start? its not tested anymore?

what changed?

WHY it took almost 2 month to fix CRAZY game changer bug/exploit!!!!???

3.24 clearly THE WORST exploits cheater bugged leag EVER or its new trend for GGG and 3.24 is only start? next leag will hav MORE dupe exploits so streamers can get 100 mir in 1 day?

what u think poe1 will die for poe2? looks like all devs work on poe2 so poe1 will be left with trash dupe economy where U FORCED to abuse exploits or done!

problem created by t17 maps actually broke game! why GGG promote t17 as stepping stone for uber content BUT made them as MUST DO content where all ppl NEEDED to run even if u dont care about ubers at all! like its give ALOOOOOOOOOOT MORE EVERYTHING so u cant say its SAME as t16 or lower tier maps anymore! t17 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much overtuned rewarded to skip em!

and dont forget that t17 kill all t15 and lower maps as they not drop t17 and makes it loose money even MORE now than before!

i hope GGG remove t17 and change back to atlas nodes instead of this broken dupe exploit content where u forced to run!

One of the big things that changed over the years was the amount of communication about development philosophy.

Anything they say these days comes off poorly. Like "get your magic find characters ready" and then they changed how loot works entirely and we are left with unmarked loot goblins or once in a league conversions.

Honestly looking back through old manifestos with hindsight of where the game went is baffling. Like how are they so out of touch with how the game is played? Like when the trade manifesto argues that if trade got easier they would be forced to reduce drop rates. Like who is forcing you ggg? The players certainly aren't because if they could make you do anything melee wouldn't be such a chore to make work.

Almost every balance manifesto's reasoning and logic is contradicted by itself or something a year down the line.

They lost their direction a long time ago. They struck gold a couple of leagues but the game overall is in a sorry state where even the most bare bones qol changes are a breath of fresh air. I never thought I'd miss crucible but man, compared to necropolis crucible had more stuff.

Hopefully poe2 is good for people. It never looked interesting to me. If other arpgs are anything to go by, one class in poe2 is going to be busted beyond belief and every other one is going to be numerically bad.

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roundishcap wrote:

Like who is forcing you ggg?

They clearly have a certain player progression per unit of time value which they refuse to budge on.
They think keeping the game tedious is best for their business and many players agree its best for the game.

They havent lost the direction. Only direction is more tedium and they have stayed true to this vector.

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Bosscannon wrote:

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roundishcap wrote:

Like who is forcing you ggg?

They clearly have a certain player progression per unit of time value which they refuse to budge on.
They think keeping the game tedious is best for their business and many players agree its best for the game.

Many of the games remaining players agree. There's a huge survivor bias there.

They still have enough to not change course.

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roundishcap wrote:

One of the big things that changed over the years was the amount of communication about development philosophy.

Anything they say these days comes off poorly. Like "get your magic find characters ready" and then they changed how loot works entirely and we are left with unmarked loot goblins or once in a league conversions.

Honestly looking back through old manifestos with hindsight of where the game went is baffling. Like how are they so out of touch with how the game is played? Like when the trade manifesto argues that if trade got easier they would be forced to reduce drop rates. Like who is forcing you ggg? The players certainly aren't because if they could make you do anything melee wouldn't be such a chore to make work.

Almost every balance manifesto's reasoning and logic is contradicted by itself or something a year down the line.

They lost their direction a long time ago. They struck gold a couple of leagues but the game overall is in a sorry state where even the most bare bones qol changes are a breath of fresh air. I never thought I'd miss crucible but man, compared to necropolis crucible had more stuff.

sadly GGG do everythin to kill poe1 for the sake of poe2

and agree about qol! hope to see just recolored breach or other old mechanic BUT with ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOT qol and w/o cheats/exploits/bugs and trash like this leag do with all 10000+ mir per day for "lucky" scamers and streamers

I have to say GGG was never quick to ban, that post and exploit was an outlier maybe even an EXTREME outlier. The normal GGG status quo for the vast majority of the games 11 or so years is ACTUALLY just like this league, minus the new found willingness to do "mid league nerfs".

So there's a lot to unpack here that I don't want some nonce to accuse me of "supporting" or how I think things should be done: Nerfing big loot strats immediately is NEW behavior. Banning for exploits is RARE and that Link is one of VERY few examples. They hardly ever ban anyone for making weird busted items or doing something obscure to get extra unintended loot. Mostly this is because "unintended" is a more grey area in POE than almost any other online game.

People like Empy (who got banned for Ultimatum exploit IIRC) who were doing the whole "hold the Ultimatum hostage by sending someone out of the circle to get way more loot" even though 99% of us could see it was clearly an exploit: had at least some tiny % of "plausible deniability" that this is just "clever use of game mechanics". This line is blurred intentionally by the game devs themselves tbh.

Its hard to ban people in POE because its actually rare that you can't make the argument they were using clever use of game mechanics. Even when most of us can tell its unintended. Because GGG is fond of letting players figure out what they're meant to be doing and how things actually work or are intended to work are often intentionally obscured.

Personally I kind of don't give a shit either way. GGG has flirted with, skirted the lines, and rubbed up against (the self blurred lines) of exploiting game mechanics as a legitimate meta-game in POE. They often say: "players need to think they're breaking the game" but they also then usually say "but not TOOOOO much". IMO this is the ambiguous Bed GGG made and gets to lay in. Its seems reasonable that they seldom actually ban anyone.

If they want to Ban, then they need to do so consistently every time they also need to establish guidelines for what is clever and what is exploit. They need to establish "run away" conditions and monitor their databases for them (current AI tech can do this nicely). Tell players to stop doing the thing and then mercilessly ban everyone who doesn't stop.

In a game built on FOMO banning people who jump on strats because of FOMO is arguably schizophrenic.

You can make a strong argument that getting thousands even tens of thousands of monsters in a single map is basically the same exploit as the Ultimatum one that arguably got Empy banned (which tbh was also wrapped up in the emotional knee jerk of Empy making douchey arrogant comments while he was exploiting, maybe as much as the actual exploit, maybe more-so). Yet both Affliction and this league have featured this or something very akin to it as "intended" mechanics. Only when it got to ~20,000 (reportedly) in one map did they mid league nerf the strat to stop spontaneously combusting the server hamsters.

alhazred70 nope it never was THIS MUCH and THIS SLOW to fix bugs/exploits or better say cheats!
never!

also u advocate cheaters and exploiters abusers as if its somth small while this leag show 14 mir in 1 day, 6s shields/etc, life flask 60+% non corrupt, etc etc

IT IS insane game break E X P L O I T A B U S E R that affect SOOOOOO much that GGG if wanted could just wipe this leag and start again

also fixin there bugs take insane LONG time that make MORE ppl to use exploits...

to summ all of this its done on purpose to kill poe1 (at least how i see it)

I did put a line in there about not wanting someone to accuse me of supporting exploits just because I'm pointing out the history of the game and GGG's almost entirely lax attitude towards "clever use of game mechanics". They've said themselves that the line is often NOT OBVIOUS.

Also I think its a lot easier to explain GGG's alleged laxity as being busy with other things (POE2) as some sort of conspiracy to kill their only source of income.

I say alleged because what are we even talking about? A few days it took them to fix the exploit? A few more to fix the sockets on those items?

I think bored people are making this a bigger deal than it is personally. I'm also bored so I'm here pointing out that GGG almost never bans anyone for exploits and probably for good reason.

As I've said, I think POE constantly skirts being a game where players are SUPPOSED TO EXPLOIT CLEVER USE OF GAME MECHANICS and thus having an extremely stringent or hard line stance on exploiting is ARGUABLY not something they can do while also being intellectually honest. If they wanted to bound and scope their game more sanely maybe they could also have more stringent standards.

In short, almost everything in POE's meta is borderline exploiting by almost any other online games standard... Affliction league would be exploiting in almost every other game I've ever played. It would make them look like hypocrites if they were overly stringent. I can totally understand why they almost never ban anyone for this stuff. I would even say its pretty reasonable. Its not IDEAL. Ideally you delineate EXACTLY what an exploit is and ALWAYS ban.

I don't support it, I recognize the fact of it. If it is was up to me Anything Emperion gaming did would be INSTANTLY nerfed right the fuck out of the game and his entire style of play would be made impossible. I would also call "clear speed meta" exploiting and remove that with logical nerfs and game design changes as well. I would be embarrassed if I made a game that encouraged and incentivized players to filter out 99.9% of the games loot and "earn a orb wage and go shopping" as the core loop. I personally would change that by bounding the game correctly like David Brevik did with D2.

So no I don't support it, most of you would not want to play the game I support (the original vision of D2's spiritual successor which POE never really managed to be) but I recognize the inevitability of it given GGG's prior history.

Poe2 will have the same bad decisions poe1 has. Dunno really why a new game is necessary, other than update the engine, then the new engine will at some point become like the current engine - unable to support the newer bright ideas.

So when poe1 dies for poe2 (its a when, not if, at best the playerbase gets split heavily in favor of the newer game, at worst poe2 flops and the ideology that made it flop is forced onto poe1, old engine or not), it wont be a big loss.