mageblood just too op

Why nerf it though when clearly many players don't want/need to use it? Surely Deadeyes, the class which is on top when it comes to farming speed, can easily buy and use Mageblood if it is that great for everyone and will improve their build to the stratosphere. Yet they don't. People with mirror-tier gear decide to use Headhunter instead.

And this is only one example.

This is 2024. Nobody bothers with flask piano anymore, MB or not. Flasks are automated either way. 100% uptime? Also pretty much a given during mapping and if your build is decent also against pinnacle boss level stuff because the boss is dead before the flask ends.

Without enkindling orbs MB will be essentially worthless 90% of the time only having time to shine against uber bosses and stuff of that level. Hardly worth chasing after for anything aside from pure bossing builds.

I guess they could cut it down a little with the increased effect, 75 in total rather than 95 but removing it entirely is a bad idea.

Stat sticks might not be "interesting" design wise but they are a necessary part of the game. Rare items are also simple and plain stat sticks. Nobody would argue to remove them and i don't see how MB is any different fundamentally. Only difference is the amount of stats you get.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Only difference is the amount of stats you get.

*shrugs* theres the rub

and Johny I don't think anyone was arguing that mageblood is automatically best (and if they were they are wrong), you don't have to kill many rares before HH out performs it and HH always had the same problems albeit in a far more flavourful way.

If you were speed farming i'd never choose MB over HH, ones a stat boost the other is a straight difficulty inverter even in its nerfed form.

The argument was that bad characters become good and good characters become godly with the item. This is obviously not true. For all that is.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

The argument was that bad characters become good and good characters become godly with the item. This is obviously not true. For all that is.

that was the argument and it is perfectly true


even characters decked to the max like your flamewood get kinda worse when you loose stun immunity and all that res/ max res from flasks.

it doesnt brick your char, not in the slightest - but that almost 200% res and dexterity has to fit somewhere and you are already very tight on rares. sure, you can get a lot of res on a stygian+jewel but still, some of your carefully curated sufixes on gear would get an axe and be replaced with res. the max res is irrecoverable tho. it is a loss that directly translates to power or gold/hr (lost rarity rolls)

perfectly doable switch, but even you deemed it tedious enough to use precisely this belt over alternatives

your build is high on the power curve, so it will survive. but build that can barely clear T17 with MB - would not without it

there is a reason why anyone who can, use this belt UNLESS they do something very specific. MB is universal - these speed clearers you talk about can use MB if they want (or can afford, HH is 10 times cheaper). you cannot slap HH on a Sanctum runner, it doesnt really help with lab or heist and in T17 HH is fun until first shroud walker teleports you into some petrification shit or whatever.

that alone makes HH unusable for me - that random teleport and constantly changing movement speed as auras come and go. and it doesnt make me speedy in non combat areas :)

MB is the same story as necromancers. each time ggg nerfs them people moan 'necro dead' and it very quickly becomes obvious they are not dead because they had so much excess power. MB has outrageous excess power - mostly in the collateral. you do not have to care about SO MANY things just because your double-power flasks free you from doing so.

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sidtherat wrote:

MB is the same story as necromancers. each time ggg nerfs them people moan 'necro dead' and it very quickly becomes obvious they are not dead because they had so much excess power.

To be fair the scope of necromancer builds these days have considerably narrowed in recent years.

A shitload of traditional summoners , while still playable.. especially with absurd budgets, are rarely worth the investment .

its a bunch of fundamentally busted skills that keep the class relevant.

Of course you can argue that this is true for many class types.

i think its a great item.

this is an item chase game, that is a chase item, its holding up the game along with a small amount of others. imo they have nerfed it too much with changes to flasks and made it too common already, the last thing we need is more destruction of the games jackpot drops.


yeah, its op, as a chase item should be, thats the point. if it wasnt op it wouldnt be doing its job. all these things of it can do this or that, yeah, it can, and thats why its great to have it in the game.

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Sadaukar wrote:

I'd say Mageblood is a little bit too strong in the sense that it's bis for basically every build. It's not niche enough.

see, i get what you are saying and i used to 100% agree with this theory, on mageblood, headhunter and other such items. should be more niche, that its pretty universal is a rly bad thing.



but ive actually had a change of opinion over the years.


if MB was for a niche section of builds then that little niche of builds would be too powerful, the item would warp the meta. people who want expensive powerful characters would be forced to play a niche of builds that work with the chase items in the game.

its much more healthy if MB is super rare, only a small % of people who are capable of getting the best items can get it but they are playing as wide a variety of builds as possible.

if a niche of builds is somewhat balanced in the high power arena with a chase item like this on then they would need to be trash compared to other builds without it. its such a bad balance state for build diversity if chase items are really niche.


thats my take these days, i used to feel it was terrible that a HH or MB was just slap it on your build and its probably really good, i do get the reasoning.





as far as really great items shouldnt be super rare type thinking, i just think that mindset doesnt fit this game genre. its not counterstrike that needs to be fair and equal, its a pve loot hunt lottery game. i think its the same with stuff like magic the gathering, people say its a game it shouldnt have cards that are hard to find... i just think those people are playing the wrong game. go play warhammer underworlds or something, MTG is a game built around that dynamic.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Personally, i believe MB is fine as it is. Yeah, it's really powerful, but it's meant to be a chase item. If the item is average or bad then nobody is going to chase it. Chase items need to be powerful otherwise there is no point.

And i don't think that MB is too powerful. Yes, it provides great QOL and flexibility with defenses. But it's nothing you can't get otherwise. Armor/Evasion/Resists are all widely available through other means. Even if you plan your build from the start with MB in mind like using flasks to cap your resists, is that really worth that much? Saves you a bunch of suffixes on gear. What do you wanna do with them if you aren't an attribute stacker?

There is also the matter of opportunity cost. Using MB means only 1 life flask/unique flask/tinctures. Not every build needs a life flask, but not having one can be quite inconvinient on builds who don't have tons of regen available. Not being able to use unique flasks, or only 1 is also quite the cost. Progenesis, Bottled Faith, Dying Sun and a few others can have a huge impact either defensively or offensively you give up on when using MB. Rare/unique belts can also provide large amounts of life/damage depending on your build so there is that too.

So yeah, great item, can be used on pretty much every build and is widely sought after because of it. But i don't think it's automatically the best choice on every build. Depending on build/preferences other options can be just as good or better.

Nerfing enkindling orbs would bascially remove the belt from the game. Nobody would use it if it wasn't for that extra flask effect. It would be a bossing only item because 100% flask uptime in maps is pretty much a given nowadays and it wouldn't even be that great for bosses given all the opportunity cost.

ya i completely agree.



i play my chars on standard, some of them are using MBs, a lot of them are not. yet i have spare MBs just sitting in my stash, i could throw them on characters but i dont. sometimes its not the best belt for the character, sometimes they just dont need it. its not an essential item, im very happy playing characters without it.