PSA: The servers are fine, it is your ISP's routing that is not

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tsunamikun wrote:

Go to Technical Support, that is the subforum for, DUMDUMDUM, technical issues. This is a thread in general discussion, why would people post troubleshooting information here when GGG supplies its own subforum for it and specifically ask and receive logs for winMTR there?

Technical Support here is a misnomer - GGG have not provided technical support for many years (and if you email them they will tell you to post in the tech support forum) - it is up to us users to try and sort out what might have gone wonky.

Carry on :)

no. i played every major mmo game out there , this game is the only one with constant , ping spikes, random dc , and rollbacks.

Its ggg servers , dont defend .

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Ispita wrote:

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When people talk about routing problems the general problem is that the traffic is going through congested or shit quality network nodes causing packet loss. It's not a matter of those packets taking longer to reach their target, they don't get received at all. There's a quite a good article explaining it here - it mostly mentions video calls but online games are something else that get fucked over badly by packet loss because the packets have to be processed in real time https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/definition/packet-loss

Simple http traffic is much less affected by packet loss which is why you can have good upload/download speeds and still get screwed by packet loss while gaming.

this is not entirely true because other services would be impacted as well not just poe if the nodes are trash and trust me they are not likely to be. Capacities are way higher on the nodes it always comes down to the hosts and only because they want to save money not because hosts aren't capable of higher performance.

If you were around 15-20 years ago and you played online games they were running the same as today in terms of server to client performance but back then we had 2 core xeons not 100 core epycs and we had 10 gbit backbone connections to the hosts not terrabits like today. There is no reason to be any conection issue it is all about cheaping out on servers.

Just for an example go on the D4 forums/Reddit and see how many posts there are titled "BLIZZARD FIX YOUR SERVERS!!!!!!!!!!!" or complaining about lagging/rubberbanding issues etc. I don't get the issues in D4 on EU servers just like I don't get them in POE but they are there for a lot of people.

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Ispita wrote:

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That's fine in principle but do IBM have data centres in Romania or Hungary?

Care to elaborate why it has to be IBM? There are plenty of other hosts that are just as good if not better. Also romania has like one of the best internet structure in EU hungary is close too. I'm sure they could find something good enough.

Their server partner always used to be SoftLayer who were acquired by IBM quite a while back. Sure you can change server partners but they are probably tied into a multi year deal, it's not like they can wake up tomorrow and decide to use AWS instead.

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Just for an example go on the D4 forums/Reddit and see how many posts there are titled "BLIZZARD FIX YOUR SERVERS!!!!!!!!!!!" or complaining about lagging/rubberbanding issues etc. I don't get the issues in D4 on EU servers just like I don't get them in POE but they are there for a lot of people.

What kind of counter argument is this? I don't think you know much about how any of the server hosting/networking works from the looks of it.

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Their server partner always used to be SoftLayer who were acquired by IBM quite a while back. Sure you can change server partners but they are probably tied into a multi year deal, it's not like they can wake up tomorrow and decide to use AWS instead.

If they wanted to they could rent anything. Not really their fault if IBM does not have a datacenter in said countries.

Don't you guys think if if it was that bad for EU as people make it out ot be in terms of isps routings and bad quality internet infrastructure etc then most of the hosts located in those countries would go out of business because nobody would rent from them? They are very much around so...

Also people complain from south america/asia too and even NA. Everywhere the same issue? Come on.

To stay with the facts for a second: a lot of the comments in this thread are made by people who don't know anything about server infrastructure or networking. You don't have to know how these things work, and no one has to defend GGG for the bad experiences many have this season. It doesn't matter what exactly the issue is, because you know you have a bad experience and knowing what's the cause doesn't fix it.

There are a few things that everyone can try to fix the issue on their own end (such as using a VPN), but ultimately it has to be resolved by GGG. For that, and for the silence on the topic, you can blame them. If nothing changes, it is everyone's right to make a stink about it. Personally, I have had almost no problems at all, but I still support this because everyone deserves access to the game.

So, unless someone with actual knowledge about this weighs in, can we just agree that GGG should address the topic already?

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

As long as none of the complainers have provided proof - that OP already asked for, but is yet to be shown - that the issue is (more) on GGG's side than on theirs, it has to be assumed that the issue lies more with the complainers.

If not all is solely on GGGs side then there are multiple issues. Disappearing portals and rollbacks are GGG side obviously - neither players nor connection with players have control or access to that.

These too seem to be offtopic ?
(Again, unless there's a reasonable cause to believe that this is caused by routing ??)

My POV: Part of the "topic" is OPs title claiming that the servers are fine. So anthing relating to server issues is part of the topic.

Also I have yet to see evidence that it is sufficiently easy to diagnostically separate server problems from the problems which are supposedly caused by routing. See for example my post here in this thread: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3480945/page/2#p25230650
This looks like server slowdown causing extremely laggy/stuttery/whatever-it-should-be-called gameplay.

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tsunamikun wrote:

I would guess the packet loss got high enough that the instance server flags it as a disconnect and rolls back the instance, or the instance itself crashed and force-disconnected the player, no way to know.

Disconnects with player normally do not cause rollback. So most likely it would be rather instance crash or some such thing.

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

We're specifically NOT talking about instance crashes (unless there's a good reason this could be caused by routing ??), please don't confuse the issue.

Oh, sorry, misunderstood, I thought we were talking about bad server performance and/or bad latency. Disregarding the numerous episodes of latency spiking very high, ending in instance crashes as "confusing the issue" is just a matter of "this doesn't fit my 'your ISP is the problem' narrative".

Because for me this league, an instance crash is usually at the end of every episode of latency spiking far into the 1000's - and so are A LOT of the reports here on the forums.

So disregarding the servers as a problem is probably more "confusing the issue" in my mind, because "the issue" is bad server performance.

"The servers are fine" is in the title. Please do NOT (with capital letters) talk about the episodes showing that the servers are NOT fine, because that is "confusing the issue". Come one, dude.

No need to fight or be hostile folks. I don't think any amount of in-depth explanation would satisfy those who already made up their mind. To be completely fair I could have written the opening post much better and also could have chosen a more appropriate title but as is, the statement and content holds true.

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Crimvaal wrote:

I don't think any amount of in-depth explanation would satisfy those who already made up their mind.

It's not about that. It's about the first sentence in the thread title, disregarding EVERY problem as "not server related", which is, of course, a severe case of misinformation. Two things can be true at once; some people struggling with bad routing and the servers having problems. And when a HUGE portion of people having problems are talking about the loss of instances, well...