Did they finally kill RF?

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

i still dont get why they had to nuke RF...it was only used for clear. it wasnt for single target. why nuke a skill that was mostly used for trash mobs?

Too much power for too little investment. Sure, the power wasn't immense, but the gear requirement was way too low for the power you got.

So, now you understand. You can disagree, I can disagree, we can all disagree. But understand? Well, you should.

but it was just for clear. occultist profane bloom does the same thing. so that should be nuke also because that needs zero investment. you just take the ascendancy

Spending points into an ascendancy is actually a investment

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Gopstop22 wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

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Gopstop22 wrote:

heatsiver is everyone? theres still 10 other meta builds wich wasnt touched

Just because its meta doesnt mean it should be "touched". Some of meta builds require heavy investment etc. Meanwhile RF was what Seismic Trap in the past - 0 budget build that can do most things in the game. GGG never liked those builds so you should be suprised it lasted this long, not that it was finally changed.
Also we still didnt see new Transfigured RF. Who knows, it might be even more OP than current RF.

you have never played RF if you think budget version can do most endgame content you cant even do red maps on a budget well you could but it would take you 30 minutes to clear one map you needed very high investment to make RF clearing even feel good and even if you invested 100 divines you still would kill bosses very slowly so thanks for proving you never played RF

Can do most things doesnt mean it can destroy it in 30 seconds. No one, but you, said anything about being fast.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Gopstop22 wrote:

heatsiver is everyone? theres still 10 other meta builds wich wasnt touched

Of course not. But Heatshiver gave life to so many average builds, making them more than average. Build diversity will take a huge hit due to the Heatshiver nerf.

Don't get me wrong here, Heatshiver is/was probably too OP, but what GGG should've done here, is to say "Oh shit, so many builds become viable due to Heatshiver - and people clearly want to play these builds. Maybe we should buff them a little bit to compensate for the Heatshiver nerf".

Several melee builds were actually fun - and semi-good with Heatshiver. Without it, they are back to less-than-average. Sure, it's a sign that Heatshiver was too good, but it also a sign of 10 years of bad balance and ignorance/incompetence regarding melee.

And what makes you certain that they didnt do that? Did you see all new gems? Personally I didnt. Just look at Firestorm - garbage old skill that no one uses. New version? ALmsot 10 times stronger. Will I consider playing it now? Hell yeah.
They can do that with every old skill. Heatshiver was bad because it was REMOVING diversity. Literally every single buil was using same item. Now they can make gem itself better and then you can use diffrent gear.

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Aynix wrote:

And what makes you certain that they didnt do that? Did you see all new gems? Personally I didnt.

Neither of us did. You clearly have faith, as you're advocating for "lots of new builds", which I interpret as "lots of viable builds". You don't know that. I don't have faith, so I'm a bit cynic and pessimistic. Why? Because GGG's track record when it comes to melee is ugly - at best. So do I actually think there will be an alternate version of Frost Blades, Double Strike or whatever other melee skill of your choosing, that will brute force the skill into the meta realm? No.

You heard it here first: The amount of 'viable' melee alternate gems will be a fraction of viable spell/ranged gems. They've had SO many years to balance melee, and they haven't even really tried. So why should I believe Affliction is going to change that?

Hell, even the pure amount of melee alternate skills will be so much lower than other archetypes, that it will make everything very clear for everyone.

Yes, I'm a "cup half full" kinda guy.

I have a faith because Im not one of those who say that we have "only 5 builds". Even now we have so many viable builds that I will never be able to play all of them. Seeing how I want to play with half of 10 skills they shown, if we are getting 100+ new gems in total, that at least 50 new builds I want to play.
People need to lower their standards for what they call "viable". For so many people "viable" means it can delete uber bosses in few seconds, do 100% deli maps with ease, do Wave 30 Similacrum and everything that on low budget.

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Aynix wrote:

People need to lower their standards for what they call "viable". For so many people "viable" means it can delete uber bosses in few seconds, do 100% deli maps with ease, do Wave 30 Similacrum and everything that on low budget.

"Viable" to me comes down to the choice; are you putting yourself in a serious disadvantage when it comes to power, scaling, investment and speed by playing X instead of Y? Then the skill isn't really viable from a skill-competitive standpoint.

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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Astasia wrote:

If you have 10k life/ES it's a buff actually up to skill level like 23. If you have +10 fire spells then RF sucked for damage comparatively anyway which is why every RF build uses something like Fire Trap to kill bosses later game. The huge radius buff is probably going to be appreciated by RF users and make it better for clearing. Who knows what the transfigured version will do.

10k life? even getting 6-7K was hard, how does one get 10k?

10k life or ES is difficult but very doable. 10k combined life and ES is trivial.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

People need to lower their standards for what they call "viable". For so many people "viable" means it can delete uber bosses in few seconds, do 100% deli maps with ease, do Wave 30 Similacrum and everything that on low budget.

"Viable" to me comes down to the choice; are you putting yourself in a serious disadvantage when it comes to power, scaling, investment and speed by playing X instead of Y? Then the skill isn't really viable from a skill-competitive standpoint.

By this mentality you will end up with 1 oe 2 skills that are "viable" because everything else would be worse, so why bother playing it, right?

Well my grandad whose been playing poe with me for 9 years, can only manage to play RF since having a brain tumor removed,,, this will absolutely destroy him :( The only game he plays now a days an a very big part of his life so I hope to god it's still at least playable after this :/

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Aynix wrote:

By this mentality you will end up with 1 oe 2 skills that are "viable" because everything else would be worse, so why bother playing it, right?

You're of course ignoring the "serious disadvantage" part. Some skills will always be better than others, that's just how these games go. But for some skills to scale into several hundred million damage, while some skills cap out at less than ten million (with comparable investment), even my grandmother's cat would understand why some people go "why am I playing this skill again, when...".

Look, I always play melee, and I usually get it to work, chasing my goals. But when I chose to go melee, I know that my leveling/progression will be slower and worse, I know my gearing will be harder and I know that my potential is lower. Not lower and worse than "1 or 2 builds", but lower than A LOT of builds. You know this, of course you do. You just choose to ignore it, or don't see a problem with it, which I find very strange.

Balance is a HUGE part of build diversity.