Help me, I was banned on the tft and I don't understand what happened.

10 story building with an elevator: people walk the stairs anyway.

it's the same reasons
- in my time we didn't have elevators
- i want to work out and have it harder to get up there
- people using the elevator are cheating

doesn't change the fact that the elevator is faster.

but

saying that having the skills to use a jetpack to fly up the stairs is possible for everyone is just unfair.

"

Clownkrieger wrote:

It got weirdly quiet in here, which may be a good thing though.

"

trixxar wrote:

-The git guud crowd ("You dont need trade or TFT, I beat Level 90 maven in 60 seconds with my crafted bow I made with one orb of chance"

You didnt quote me, but i cant resist to feel adressed by this somehow.

..
What kind of "people" or "crowd" do you think you are, if i may ask?

I wasn't intending to point at you at all, just generally thinking back to last few years of trade discussions.


Me? I am sort of the annoying forum goer who doesn't accept things the way they are so needlessly harps on things that we all know wont change (unless PoE starts bleeding or perhaps is unable to lure streamers back from D4 - but it certainly won't change because Im posting).

I am also a project/systems engineer so I am kinda horrified that you would introduce a feature for your client but then intentionally make it bad because you dont want them to use it. There is a root cause here (too much trade is bad and non-immersive and removes challenge) and instead of addressing that (make self crafting better, make items have limited trades) they chose the laziest and worst solution I can think of - make your own game annoying as hell.

Its just like... a thorn that gets you ever time I log in.

"

trixxar wrote:

I wasn't intending to point at you at all, just generally thinking back to last few years of trade discussions.


Me? I am sort of the annoying forum goer who doesn't accept things the way they are so needlessly harps on things that we all know wont change (unless PoE starts bleeding or perhaps is unable to lure streamers back from D4 - but it certainly won't change because Im posting).

I am also a project/systems engineer so I am kinda horrified that you would introduce a feature for your client but then intentionally make it bad because you dont want them to use it. There is a root cause here (too much trade is bad and non-immersive and removes challenge) and instead of addressing that (make self crafting better, make items have limited trades) they chose the laziest and worst solution I can think of - make your own game annoying as hell.

Its just like... a thorn that gets you ever time I log in.

Hey,

thanks for responding (i was really just interested and not trying to lure you into something. Well, maaaaybe, but you passed the "test" ;)!

You are right with what you say - i dont percieve it as annoying though. Its "friction" i accept, cause i really like the game and GGG keeps delivering stuff i can enjoy. And yea, im used to worse (back then where i started and here as well lol). And hey, poe improved SOOO much over its timespan.

Also i probably dont trade as much as many here would think (i dont sell essences for example, cause for one i use them a lot, for another, yea, thats an annoying thing to do. Buying them a lot in bulk from tradesite though, actually. Sidenote: Its funny when you think about it: these people on tft prolly bulk-sell their essence stash to people that then sell them MORE expensive to me, lmao).

I craft a lot (cause well, i do a lot of builds, weird builds, and cant buy the stuff i want for them from trade very often. Sidenote: Doing metabuilds cause it is alledgedy "effective" to do them is a fallacy (at least for "normal" users) imo: those builds end up being super expensive, cause well, everyone knows what "meta" is and tries to make money of it... i observe this at my friends very regularly).
I play my builds for a few days and then sell the stuff and do next (thats mid-lateleague) - and yea, even good crafted weird stuff sells, cause there ARE people doing weird things in poe (and maybe dont know how to/are too lazy to craft things for them, friction and all). And actually a lot of stuff i craft is just basic gear anyways.
THATS actually how i make most of my currency in the end (yes, i like picking rares, but stop that very soon into league...)


I see all those "problems" more like a consequence of GGG starting as garage company with some idealistic ideas and then getting overwhelmed by success (which also resulted out of the "fails" the competition delivered (fails in my eyes, before someone jumps at me to tell me i have to like other stuff cause the "majority" likes them or whatever...)). They had to keep up the pace they wanted to have AND ramp up "their" game (just remember how simple the first leaguemechanics have been).
There are a lot of things they probably wanted to make different but... "failed" to do. Well, they got successfull and could make that "ruthless" thing now to satisfy their real sadistic needs lol (I enjoy ssf, like really - never gonna touch ruthless though, ever (probably)).

Anyways, they still have and keep making a game i like, thats why im still here after all? Lets see what they have with POE 4.0 aka 2 in stock for us (that will really show how they want "their game" to be and what they learned from the "mistakes" they made).

Cheers!

E: Detailed some context

"

trixxar wrote:

-Dont really even trade, but dont want any balance changes so oddly argue against trade improvement although what they really want is just no balance adjustments (so why chime in a trade thread...)
-The git guud crowd ("You dont need trade or TFT, I beat Level 90 maven in 60 seconds with my crafted bow I made with one orb of chance")


And GGG ignores us all equally.

Cheers.

These two points are mostly not real things, but attempts to ad hom other peoples opinions because they generally have good points that are hard or even impossible to refute with good opposing arguments.

I don't want the game to be easier to trivialize, but more important than that: GGG doesn't and have stated WHY. Somehow people have turned this into "well you play SSF-R and despite that only being a thing for about 7 months, you clearly never trade" so I guess I don't get to inform people that GGG doesn't want what they want when they seem very uninformed about the subject?

I've played more trade than any other mode of POE. The "you don't trade so you don't get to have an opinion" thing is just silly appeal to authority/expertise fallacy. Used by the same desperate ppl who need to look at character profiles to dig up poo to throw at others usually because their arguments were inadequate and poo is marginally better.

As far as git gud: SC trade is already being "won" in a few days of league start, guys like Grimro are already wearing MB or HH in week 1. Turning not wanting to m,ake it even easier into "git gud" is just super reductive.

Facts are facts
1. Games already easy to trivialize no one at all will argue that you need mirror items or bulking to trivialize it, these are pure luxuries. Never mind that you can, and many people have, done this without TFT.

2. "you're removed from the economy if you're not on TFT" is hyperbole they know its hyperbole but they're entrenched into defending it and making up things is all you can do when even you know your argument is silly.

3. Games need to have some amount of challenge (which is literally what friction is we just tend to call things we don't personally enjoy "friction" or "tedium") games are literally just collections of more or less interesting impediments to progress. You need friction or you just log in to a automatic "YOU WON" screen. This is an extreme logical extension but it shows the truth of what happens when any game is reduced to zero friction... Some of you want less friction AKA POE to be easier, and thats fine, as long as you recognize your own actual motivation. GGG however is on record as very much not wanting what you want. They aren't unaware, or mistaken, they disagree, publicly on record for reasons that are very explicitly stated and non-vague.

Not saying they're doing the current amount of friction the best possible way, I agree there are things they could improve that would keep or even raise friction that would still feel like improvements to the average individual player (I agreed with a couple of them earlier in the thread) just saying some of the arguments in here are like kids trying to dare their parents into letting them get their way.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

.

Hey,

besides you still arguing against someone who is probated rn... i said something to you, calling it "very probably", might have been wrong.

Not meant to attack you or be mean, just an observation.

People here talk so much about what "others" do/think/believe/whatever, and dont put enough effort in transporting what THEY really think about things - thats an imho, btw.

This place would be so much nicer if people would try to do that. Well, also if they would be able to respect the views and opinions of others. That should be a given, but hey, its the internet, after all...

E: Just realized someone might take that as contradiction to some things i did in this thread. Its not. I just get triggered by people not doing the above, and then... well yea, sometimes i cross "borders", cause i have to.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

Not saying they're doing the current amount of friction the best possible way, I agree there are things they could improve

That's really all I am saying, honestly.

"

GlutonyOfElements wrote:

Spoiler

"digitalspenzrevolution"

1: Delete all characters.

2: Request POE contact support to change you Account name, email.

3: Erase all the logs of your POE (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ougv3/i_need_help_finding_my_path_of_exilelogs_directory/)

4: Use VPN (if you don't do this, you will fail), create new email and use this email to join TFT again, and from now on when you're using TFT you will use VPN.

"StinkStink"

5: Ask support to remove all forum posts

6: Do math and make the same amount or greater of posts to match your old post data that now has missing posts.

7: Buy more supporter packs to obfuscate your supporter pack history.

"

How are they able to tell your IP address?

Isn't it simpler for GGG to ban people from data mining users profiles? Like unless you are the owner of the profile and you've made your supporter packs private all metrics and details that can be used to fingerprint an account are invisible to tft.

TFT does not have to access individual PoE/Discord user's IP address (unless we login to TFT's own services). They use local session tokens.

you know i was buying white sockets or aul in delve for challange, pay the guy and dont give a fuck about writing a positive commend about trade

that got me permabanned from TFT 2 leagues from now :)


somehow i still exist without this shitty discord channel
its imo only usefull for selling items in bulk
(and if you know how to do this in d2jsp its no problem)

so yeah, i wouldnt be even worried about it on your place

Friction is not a challenge, friction is just frustration and devaluing of players time.

Trading is meta-gaming, and basic trading (give me x of your y and I give you z of my w) should be as easy as possible. An auction house would be perfect for the dynamics in this game, most items could start out with 1 chaos orb price and go to the person with the highest bid after 72 hours.

Currency? Direct exchange.

Everything direct to your currency tab. No need for additional clicking, no need for whispers.

Thats part A.

Part B is where highly valuable communities like TFT, which I came to enjoy, come into play.

Mirror services with escrow! Keeping the not-nice people in check by having multiple layers of anti-scam-defense (they're doing great work, I LOVE their browser add on which probably saved me from a lot of scams and wasted time, because it also shows me price fixers)! An infrastructure which is able to handle complicated trade use cases!

Thats TFT for me, a great place, it even made me use Discord again. :-)

---

Having said all that I stand firmly by my opinion that trading is not about "friction" or "challenge", but about QoL and UX. And it should be as simple, as intuitive, as possible, especially in a game where drop rates for non-trash-items are so low that trading is a must for a realistic majority of players who can't afford to spend almost all of their spare time rolling the dice.

Which is also why SSF in its current state (same low drop rates as in trade league) will never be an option for me.

And before that question comes up:

SSF should be balanced around being SSF actually. Meaning: a realistically modelled player, the average Joe with a job, family and an additionally hobby, should realistically be able to reach endgame over the course of a league with effort.

Those who want more have the option to go R. Or additional challenges, etc...

Not "hm, I have 10 divines now but I'm too scared to use them to upgrade my gear because it took me a month to gather them".

@navigator4223
To set the desired outcome in advance, we will always have to ask ourself how far we are willing to compromise.
If you are not included in "the desired average target user", would you agree to be excluded as the cause of friction ?