I alt+f4 at lvl 10 in D4, that game is so boring

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Xyel wrote:

For most games, the campaign is the game. In PoE, it's an extended tutorial with the actual game begining afterwards.

False Statement. The game in closed beta was simply 2 acts and 4 difficulties. Campaign is the main game. The map system was invented for those people who wanted to continue their character.

It is true however that the game is designed in such a way that a player can find much more currency and items than during the campaign. Most players equated 'more rewarding' with 'better' and say the 'true game' starts with maps because you get more currency. All these endgame systems built on endgame systems is just the carrot carrying donkey walking forward.

In diablo 2, the game POE is heavily inspired upon, the campaign is also the game.

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feike wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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feike wrote:

My dear, by your own account, most players dont bother past the beach. Theres no really much to think about to get past THAT

That's right sweetie, the onbaording for new exiles is so bad, a decent amount don't even kill Brutus.

Edit: ^ and there you have the stats on Brutus lol

Well, a good 30% of hollows on dark souls never even linked a single bonfire, 20% of final fantasy players who bought revenant wings didnt killed the tomato and those were two games people paid to download, so why 40% of exiles not killing brutus in a free-just download and go ridiculous?

Well for one being F2P, while it certainly gives more opportunity for people to try, it's also far more important that those trying stay long enough to be monetized.

Turning away 40% of potential customers right off the bat isn't exactly a top notch business strategy. I don't know why GGG doesn't do a better job here, or at least make it more palatable.

Perhaps they just don't care. The issue being, as we tie things back together, is that D4 does this in a far better, more accessible way. But I suppose you can disagree and we can all find out in around 3 weeks how this actually plays out.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Well for one being F2P, while it certainly gives more opportunity for people to try, it's also far more important that those trying stay long enough to be monetized.

Turning away 40% of potential customers right off the bat isn't exactly a top notch business strategy. I don't know why GGG doesn't do a better job here, or at least make it more palatable.

Perhaps they just don't care. The issue being, as we tie things back together, is that D4 does this in a far better, more accessible way. But I suppose you can disagree and we can all find out in around 3 weeks how this actually plays out.

No... just no...

Its a mistake to assume GGG is losing 40% of potential customers because theres a clear difference between people just passing and taking a peek but have no customer potential and real potential customers, and GGG knows it

Its why even on real stores, staff will treat differently some people, they are trained to detect people that are not potential buyers, going for every single person like everyone is a potential customer is duck tales logic that only works on scrooge universe. You cant make everyone happy, you need to select who you cather and cathering that 40% is hardly worth it. Its the people that dont give the game a realistic chance

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feike wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Well for one being F2P, while it certainly gives more opportunity for people to try, it's also far more important that those trying stay long enough to be monetized.

Turning away 40% of potential customers right off the bat isn't exactly a top notch business strategy. I don't know why GGG doesn't do a better job here, or at least make it more palatable.

Perhaps they just don't care. The issue being, as we tie things back together, is that D4 does this in a far better, more accessible way. But I suppose you can disagree and we can all find out in around 3 weeks how this actually plays out.

No... just no...

Its a mistake to assume GGG is losing 40% of potential customers because theres a clear difference between people just passing and taking a peek but have no customer potential and real potential customers, and GGG knows it

Its why even on real stores, staff will treat differently some people, they are trained to detect people that are not potential buyers, going for every single person like everyone is a potential customer is duck tales logic that only works on scrooge universe. You cant make everyone happy, you need to select who you cather and cathering that 40% is hardly worth it. Its the people that dont give the game a realistic chance

Well thats...interesting? Hardly worth it? No doubt there is no way to know for sure if any of those 40% would have ever been monetized, but I can tell you with absolute certainty they didn't get monetized after quitting that much is true lol.

40% is big number when you consider the total volume we are discussing. That's hundreds of thousands of people ffs. If the next PoE league sees a 40% overall reduction thats not good news at all, and I wouldn't want to be on the Tencent call when CW says "meh those 40% are hardly worth it" ha!

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Well thats...interesting? Hardly worth it? No doubt there is no way to know for sure if any of those 40% would have ever been monetized, but I can tell you with absolute certainty they didn't get monetized after quitting that much is true lol.

40% is big number when you consider the total volume we are discussing. That's hundreds of thousands of people ffs. If the next PoE league sees a 40% overall reduction thats not good news at all, and I wouldn't want to be on the Tencent call when CW says "meh those 40% are hardly worth it" ha!

Its crystal you dont get out much or dont have experience in commerce or stocks... 40% not having potential is nothing out of the ordinary, if anything its a super low number, the general rule most of the time is the 80/20 principle: You should focus only on 20% for its where 80% of the money comes from

Its obviously not that clear-cut and literal but point is: Most people that show up either wont fork any money or will only fork very small amounts. It NEVER makes sense to try to applease the actual majority and trying to do so is more often than not financial suicide

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Reinhart wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

For most games, the campaign is the game. In PoE, it's an extended tutorial with the actual game begining afterwards.

False Statement. The game in closed beta was simply 2 acts and 4 difficulties. Campaign is the main game. The map system was invented for those people who wanted to continue their character.

It is true however that the game is designed in such a way that a player can find much more currency and items than during the campaign. Most players equated 'more rewarding' with 'better' and say the 'true game' starts with maps because you get more currency. All these endgame systems built on endgame systems is just the carrot carrying donkey walking forward.

In diablo 2, the game POE is heavily inspired upon, the campaign is also the game.

True statement.
In closed beta, a computer was a machine that took an entire room. That doesn't quite describe computers of today, does it?

The game got released after the closed beta, and all the updates and new content are in the after-campaign part, have been for many years. Maps are the main mode. And it has nothing to do with rewards, but everything to do with content.

Many games have the campaign as the main mode. PoE does not, and hasn't had for an extremely long time.

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feike wrote:

Why you are so adamant everyone sees the story mode as "tutorial"???

Because practically any player who has played PoE for a meaningful amount of time spends the absolute majority of that time in the after-campaign part. It's also the part that gets all the updates. The campaign hasn't received an update in what, 6 years? The actual main mode, the maps, get updated every 3 - 4 months. Take all the time you ahve spent with PoE, take the amount you've spent in campaign, and express it as a percentage of the total time spent. Is it more than 5 %? I doubt it.

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Xyel wrote:

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feike wrote:

Why you are so adamant everyone sees the story mode as "tutorial"???

Because practically any player who has played PoE for a meaningful amount of time spends the absolute majority of that time in the after-campaign part. It's also the part that gets all the updates. The campaign hasn't received an update in what, 6 years? The actual main mode, the maps, get updated every 3 - 4 months. Take all the time you ahve spent with PoE, take the amount you've spent in campaign, and express it as a percentage of the total time spent. Is it more than 5 %? I doubt it.

People have been bitching that camp got too hard on this very forum like... 3 leagues ago, so it was a tad less than 6 years. The second act is not that old and it makes a tad little sense for GGG to devote so many resources(dozens of hours woth of playtime on enemy models, enviroment, sound) on it if it was just a "tutorial"

And the people that "played for a meaningful amount of time" translates for less than a third of people that even gets to act 6(wich in turn means less than a third of people who download the game), so the viewpoint that the "real" game is only on maps literally means only 15% of the players even reach there

Your or my time on story means shit, were not casuals. I can garantee the rate of time the total population of players spend on story vs time on maps is vastly diferent than either of ours rate

I should have played longer than I did, I never did get to form a complete opinion on it. I made it to around level 7 as a necro and the server had some small hiccup. I think I could have re-logged pretty much instant but closed the game and intended to go back to it, I just never did.

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Xyel wrote:

Because practically any player who has played PoE for a meaningful amount of time spends the absolute majority of that time in the after-campaign part. It's also the part that gets all the updates. The campaign hasn't received an update in what, 6 years? The actual main mode, the maps, get updated every 3 - 4 months. Take all the time you ahve spent with PoE, take the amount you've spent in campaign, and express it as a percentage of the total time spent. Is it more than 5 %? I doubt it.

1) There was a period where the credits rolled over the screen after completing the campaign.

2) When you say maps get updated every 3 months, I assume you are referring to league mechanics. Well those very same league mechanics can be engaged with as soon as Act 1.

3) They have been working on campaign number 2 for many years now. That is a lot of devotion and time for something you consider is not the 'main game'.


Anyway, I am going to leave it at this, cuz it is off topic.

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Reinhart wrote:

1) There was a period where the credits rolled over the screen after completing the campaign.

There was a time when a phone was a physical device connected to a landline. Not very relevant today.

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Reinhart wrote:

2) When you say maps get updated every 3 months, I assume you are referring to league mechanics. Well those very same league mechanics can be engaged with as soon as Act 1.

I mean mostly the balance patches, atlas passive tree and its constant adjustments, the old-league mechanics and the updates to them, and practically all the other stuff in the patch notes - almost nothing from that is even visible in the campaign. And as for league mechanic, you can interact with a small part of it in the campaign, as the brunt of the league mechanic tends to be high-maps-only, and crucible is no exception.

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Reinhart wrote:

3) They have been working on campaign number 2 for many years now. That is a lot of devotion and time for something you consider is not the 'main game'.

Yeah, that's something that keeps baffling me. On the one hand, GGG firmly pivots the game around the most hardcore part of its playerbase, and on the other hand, it puts a massive investment into the extended tutorial, which that very hardcore part of the playerbase rushes through, competing in who manages to get rid of that the fastest. No matter how cool the new campaign is, if one can rush the old campaign an hour faster than the new one, the entire core playerbase will play the old campaign beyond the first league of PoE 2.