I alt+f4 at lvl 10 in D4, that game is so boring

"

Pashid wrote:

I mean that's not a D4 unique thing and would apply to every game cause it comes down to you as a gamer with how many hours you put into whatever game, and you sure get to enjoy every single game on the market even as "self claimed casual" with just a few hours of playtime a day. Like hell even a lot of people used to play grindy mmorpgs as a casual player, and some of them sure required way more time than any arpg ever did

The correct way to spell it is: Diablo 4 will cater to people that dont want to think or cant be bothered to learn

Games that caters to no-lifers are mobiles games that demands you to be either always ready to logon or fork stupid amounts of money so you are untouchable and can have a life with no worry of your progress being deleted if you forgot/cant log every 3 or so hours

As complex PoE is, its still a time sink only if you set goals like "have all ubers on farm stats before end of league" or above. Since its already well established fact only a handfull even reach red maps, its silly to say the game is uber complex simply because the average dude dont reach the point the complexity is trully needed. PoE is quite much on the simple end of the gaming scale until you start to tap really high end content. You dont really need to know the formulas most of the time(the one build i can think that legit require tampering with game formulas is the cwdt skelet loops, kudos to the guy that figured out the correct duration-related number combo to make the cds align), and most of the stuff we DO need to be familiar with is no more complex than the likes of magic the gathering or yugioh. You DO need serious knowledge and creativity to invent a build or to itemcraft, but since the absolute vast majority of us dont do that and mostly just tinker existing builds and only an even smaller fraction bothers to craft itens... yeah, the knowlege required is not THAT vast, nothing 10 minutes of youtube cant cover for each build or a particular boss/area

Truly complex stuff are more on the side of RTS or fighting games, maybe some shooters. Ironically, blizzard was known for really intricate games: Starcraft is one of the most deceptively complex game ever, heroes of the storm at the higher levels is up there with dota and warcraft can sometimes be quite damn hard to figure out whats the next optimal move. Diablo on the other hand was never exactly a paragon of complexity and by far the most casual of the big 3 blizz titles

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

D4 is mostly catering to the person that is working all day, comes home, has some dinner, spends time with their SO, and then has a couple of hours at most to maybe relax, kills some mobs, get some loot, play with friends, etc...

but its actually not good for this. the more casual and low hour you are the more you are basically just playing the campaign, and the campaign is horrible. it plays like a really bad adventure mode of just respawning boring enemies and little 1 off set encounters in the style of a poe league mechanic. it doesnt actually have a well sculpted compelling single player experience, its just a string of really contrived, disconnected 'filler' content that only makes sense in that sort of spamming endgame maps for 8 hours a day 'dont story me bro' environment.



so the game doesnt do what u claim its trying to do well at all. its only saving grace might be that if you are a hardcore vet whos going to rack up 1000s of hours and end up just wanting an adventure mode anyway that the lack of an actual good campaign doesnt bother you and actually the long hour endgame grind turns out to be cool when u hit max level and start grinding the top tier dungeons.



if you are a noob who only has a small hour investment ur better off playing d3, wolcen, last epoch or even poe because they all offer a better campaign experience. it doesnt matter that poe has 5k hours of content in endgame you will never reach as a casual because simply poe 1-20 is a better game than d4 1-20.


most of the people who will like this game more than those other games are people who love mmorpgs and not arpgs, because this has the sort of gameplay that thinks seeing another player in the world is more immersive than actually having an immersive world and immersive gameplay, which is the pull of mmos vs an rpg that has a well crafted single/co=op playthrough. its not a casual vs hardcore player divide, its more of a game genre divide between arpgs and mmos.

this game has a shit campaign like mmos do, and what it gets in return is a shared world space where you see other players running around, like mmos do. arpgs are like fallout 3 and 4, diablo 4 is like fallout 76. the game is worse but theres random other people in your game. i dont understand why that is exciting, i dont get it, worse game is worse, random other people in my zones is also worse. its bad and then bad. i dont understand why, thats why i dont like this game, not because im not casual enough to enjoy it.


tons of people love world of warcraft and hate arpgs, they will probably enjoy this game.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

casual because simply poe 1-20 is a better game than d4 1-20.

I couldn't help myself but to come to laugh at this. That's a completely delusional take.

"

Xyel wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

casual because simply poe 1-20 is a better game than d4 1-20.

I couldn't help myself but to come to laugh at this. That's a completely delusional take.

Half the takes in this thread on D4 are simply wild.

PoE provides a horrific new player experience, and the game information is virtually non-existent. In order to learn, you must seek out outside information. The amount of time you need to invest in PoE to even fundamentally understand it is over the top. Hell every league the patch notes themselves take even a solid vet a couple hours to pass through and determine their applications. Let alone if you have to read a 15k word manifesto first. It's outrageous for most people, especially in 90 day pendulum shfting cycle. The opportunity cost for a real world life are totally out of whack. PoE quite literally, has no respect for an average persons time.

D4 will be accessible to anyone to pickup and play for as long as they have time for. It definitely has areas to min/max but nothing like a barely understandable PoB session trying to scale ehp and damage. The game just makes sense, it feels good, it looks good. You get the power fantasy of both the character identity, as well as the nuance to play how you want. (Group play is great too)

The D4 Copium here is next level, combined with a total minimization of PoE's problems. Its equal parts funny as it is sad.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Half the takes in this thread on D4 are simply wild.

PoE provides a horrific new player experience, and the game information is virtually non-existent. In order to learn, you must seek out outside information. The amount of time you need to invest in PoE to even fundamentally understand it is over the top. Hell every league the patch notes themselves take even a solid vet a couple hours to pass through and determine their applications. Let alone if you have to read a 15k word manifesto first. It's outrageous for most people, especially in 90 day pendulum shfting cycle. The opportunity cost for a real world life are totally out of whack. PoE quite literally, has no respect for an average persons time.

D4 will be accessible to anyone to pickup and play for as long as they have time for. It definitely has areas to min/max but nothing like a barely understandable PoB session trying to scale ehp and damage. The game just makes sense, it feels good, it looks good. You get the power fantasy of both the character identity, as well as the nuance to play how you want. (Group play is great too)

The D4 Copium here is next level, combined with a total minimization of PoE's problems. Its equal parts funny as it is sad.

In 2012 Path of Exile was new to me and the first time I played through Act 1 I was completely amazed with what this game delivered and could deliver. It never really felt horrible to me, I, a new player. The game clicks or it doesn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6hqvWJljAM

"

Reinhart wrote:

It never really felt horrible to me, I, a new player. The game clicks or it doesn't.

We were all new once, that isn't even remotely the point. PoE now is light years beyond the complexity layers from 2012. 10 years of mechanics and functionality added on top of each other. It's a mess, truly.

And the Steam achievement statistics don't lie. Its a F2P so it sees decent traffic. As far as clicking? Yeah no, the vast majority of people that are new trying PoE for the first time, don't last long at all.

Not even as far as the D4 act 1 beta lol.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

We were all new once, that isn't even remotely the point. PoE now is light years beyond the complexity layers from 2012. 10 years of mechanics and functionality added on top of each other. It's a mess, truly.

My point is, do you really need to know all these details to finish the campaign?

"

Reinhart wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

We were all new once, that isn't even remotely the point. PoE now is light years beyond the complexity layers from 2012. 10 years of mechanics and functionality added on top of each other. It's a mess, truly.

My point is, do you really need to know all these details to finish the campaign?

It's hard to remove myself from previous experience to answer that.

If you dont really understand the socketing systems and support gems, flat damage scaling, vendor recipes, what to look for on gear, adjust your item filter, and more, I'm sure it's a fairly shit experience early on.

I suppose a better question is why a shockingly high percentage of players don't even make it past Brutus...let alone the entirty of act1.

Man, where were the times?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLrbsyh3Yc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKKUUgfTBuI

I still remember my oldschool playtime in Tibia. You were literally dropped into a sewer with a knife and you had to fight rats for earning your first gold coins. The entrance to the sewer's exit was on an island and only by a switch on that island could a bridge be lowered to reach the exit. Trust me, there was always a fucker pulling that lever, making sure you would die in the sewers to rats, so they could loot your fallen body for gold. Yes back then, you dropped all your items when you died.

A giant world to be explored full of dungeons, monsters and secrets. Back then you could actually see which players were veterans by the gear they wore. The first guy on the server who could manage to descend into the deepest Hells, slay all demons, would find a chest which contained the one and only 'cool as hell' Demon Legs (along with unique Guardian Halberd, Dwarven Axe and Medusa Shield). That player also had to make sure to make it out alive because if he died and the body rotted away over time, those items would be gone for good.

Players wielding a Brightsword, meant they had figured out a quest in Tibia. There were no guides or anything on the internet, everything went by word in the game itself. You only knew for example that daily there was a chest somewhere in the swamps that obtained a cool as hell Brightsword. How to get it? Almost no one knew. These kind of secrets kept players busy.

There were quests containing riddles. Answers to these riddles had to be found in books scattered all over the gameworld. NPCs not having dialogue trees but you needed to trigger them with certain words and no one knew upfront which words would cause a reaction. Areas locked by secret keys.

I mean damn sure the current generation needs a lot of handholding.

Also yes it is a sad trend that dumping loads of money into a game makes you look cooler and better than your average Joe. And yes PoE does the same thing with its cosmetics but I am surely hoping all that supporter money is put to good use when it comes to gear art creation.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Half the takes in this thread on D4 are simply wild.

PoE provides a horrific new player experience, and the game information is virtually non-existent. In order to learn, you must seek out outside information. The amount of time you need to invest in PoE to even fundamentally understand it is over the top. Hell every league the patch notes themselves take even a solid vet a couple hours to pass through and determine their applications. Let alone if you have to read a 15k word manifesto first. It's outrageous for most people, especially in 90 day pendulum shfting cycle. The opportunity cost for a real world life are totally out of whack. PoE quite literally, has no respect for an average persons time.

D4 will be accessible to anyone to pickup and play for as long as they have time for. It definitely has areas to min/max but nothing like a barely understandable PoB session trying to scale ehp and damage. The game just makes sense, it feels good, it looks good. You get the power fantasy of both the character identity, as well as the nuance to play how you want. (Group play is great too)

The D4 Copium here is next level, combined with a total minimization of PoE's problems. Its equal parts funny as it is sad.

This is also a wild take

As i said in my post, it comes from the viewpoint of a guy who tries to put himself in the shoes of a new player but isnt a new player himself

The manner of fact is: PoE only REALLY demands knowlege on the final sections of the game. Its almost established fact that the first character a person make will suck, but gess what? The sheer fact that you will get to maps with that sucky character is proof that for the early game, you dont need to know jack shit to make things work, most of the casuals that you claim D4 will cather dont play past that, so in truth, they dont experience the really know-checks of the game. EVERYTHING works on story mode, it takes a special kind of botch on passives to end with a trully umplayable character that cant kill kitava

What you COULD claim is that D4 will cather to kids that want to feel powerful easily with no effort since PoE have been experimenting with ramping up the diff of the story to give some challenge but still accesible to every bizarre build. Story mode of poe kinda pushes you to know the basics, but thats really all. You dont need to know the finer points of builds to get to maps and just picking a random skill and stiching stuff around that skill in a way that kinda makes sense works just fine

Also, D4 dont seem to cather to "casuals", the design from what we heard so far suggests a game that requires you to log at certain points in time that align to server events or community-created oportunities. That is prob something they are trying to pull from wow, but wow is NOT a casual-friendly design, like many of the mobile games that forces you to go online when the game asks for rather than at your own convenience, its actually a philosophy that is harsh on people with a real life