How is this game playable in melee?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

And what I did wrong was expecting it to play like any other type of build, like bows or any spells or minions or projectiles or whatever else I played in the past, where entering maps with ~3k life, capped resists, and <5 C weapon was perfectly fine... not with a melee skill though.

Can't talk about the Crucible league mechanic but i did exactly that last league using double strike and a 3c weapon and i was oneshotting everything that crossed my way. Kept using that 3c weapon all the way into late yellow/early red maps before the damage started to fall off. It always amazes me how the experiences of two people playing the same game can be so vastly different.

Might also be the patch. Rares generally feel a hell of a lot tougher and deadlier than in Sanctum. The 'AN is back' stuff sound like a conspiracy theory, but in retrospect, I did meet a couple of mobs in campaign of whom I literally couldn't move the HP bar as they outregenerated my damage.

115/115 4 watchstones as melee and I hate myself for loving melee kekw

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Baharoth15 wrote:

My builds work because i invest time and effort testing stuff and working out the kinks and improving them over time, unlike 99% of the "melee is bad" faction here in the forum who league start it and then drop it for some ranged build before they are even out of the campaign because they run into some obstacle.

good for you, doesnt change the fact that damage imbalance between skills matter.

you checked the base damage of splitting steel during leveling compared to a lot of melee skills for instance ? getting free overlap from the get go ?

old spectral helix

lightning conduit when it went out ?

heatshiver bullshit

poison concoction

olld seismic trap, deleting the content without any effort

etc .

since you know well the game why is it even a point of debate.

damage does matter and gg not only perfectly knows it but use it all the time even with stupid stuff like heatshiver or old brittle. fucking annoying to have to debate this when even ggg does it that much in your face. old nightblade ?

I never said there aren't outliers in terms of damage, Seismic being the prime example. But is that the benchmark you want skills to be balanced around? The fact that all those skills got nerfed already just shows that they aren't the benchmark. Heatshiver is something melee can freely abuse as well so i don't even see the point in listing that.

I am not saying damage is a meaningless metric, quite the opposite it's a very important stat. What i am saying is that
1) Damage isn't the problem because melee has already more than enough of it. Other skills having more damage on the gem doesn't change that. Get a decent weapon and you'll oneshot everything even with melee builds and i am not talking about mirror stuff here before you come with that bullshit. Early/midgame weapons that accomplish that are like 3-5c and endgame options to do ubers with are 3-5 divs.
2) Melee won't be able to compete with ranged spells even if you buff the damage. The lack of Range, damage projection and in some cases the lacking mechanics will always hold it back and even if it had more damage than spells, as long as spells have enough damage to easily do everything melee having more won't be much of an incentive for people to deal with it's downsides.

If GGG really wants to help melee there are other things they could do. Like removing the need for those annoying totems and redesigning uber bosses so that they don't demand a build that can constantly move while doing damage and don't have absurd area denial in the form of ground degens everywhere. Personally i'd also like to see them give unique weapons a balance pass similar to what they've done with some endgame obtions in 3.20. 90% of the unique weapons out there have completely outdated numbers and aren't viable choices anymore. 200 pdps was a reasonable thing back in 3.08 but monster HP have quintupled since then while the weapons stayed the same. These kind of things would help people who like playing melee. All the idiots who just want to play the most busted damage skills for the most div/hour can just stick with COC ice spear or whatever. No matter what you do with melee, these kind of people won't go and play heavy strike anyway.

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I never said there aren't outliers in terms of damage, Seismic being the prime example. But is that the benchmark you want skills to be balanced around?

did I put it in the game or did GGG did ? for what, 1 year and a half ? so wtf is the pb if we ask to raise other skills dmg cause we want to play other skills than the ggg approved skills ? and I personnaly dont just want that much damage, just not stuff that deal double to triple damage and then balance the game around it. right now the game is balanced around league staarters especially for newer players and it s annoying as fuck.


heat shiver was just there to sshow lazy ggg game balancing and the spirit of the scaling. old brittle better example.

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melee or just boneshatter.

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2)

completely wrong if i look for instance at gauntlet, people that want a good mix of clear damage and defenses. and also league starters. and again you talk aboout competition but most people dont give a flying smoke about competition they want to play more than the approved ggg league starters and not do half dmg. this is getting ridiculous, all we ask is reduce the base damage gaps of skills or archetypes. not even be perfectly balanced. is 1 year and a half too little for ggg to close the gap ? seriously ?

Ok, what is your argument exactly? When this debate started you implicitely said that a few damage buffs would make melee competitive, because that's what Kuciol denied when you threw your hyperbole at him. But now you are just ranting about GGG being bad at balancing (that's obvious and nobody questiones that), say that nobody cares about stuff being competitive and then bring gauntlet races up in the same sentence which are like the most competitive game mode available?

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melee or just boneshatter.

When i say melee then i mean melee, never even played boneshatter, no need to.

I didnt talk about competitivee you did. that s why i brought up gauntlet to show you a competitive envirenoment where melee is competitive.

and it wasnt an hyperbole. it was a LOGIC argument. if damage doesnt matter then infinite damage wouldnt change anything wich both of you acknoledge it would matter a lot except for niche cases. And we know most players asking to fix melee are not saying we want best currency per hour.

anyway, sry but you have readng comprehension pb, people interested can look at the messages and make their own idea. but i wont go further.

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sc0rp404 wrote:

It isnt.

Bonezone, all my friends in hardcore don't die on that build and kill all content. Melee too strong :P

My Berzerker General's Cry Blade Flurry build got absolutely gutted this patch.

Logged in to see impact of nerfs and double check on PoB. Went from 140mil Pinnacle boss to 65 mil at maxxed out.

- Lowered health by 200
- lowered tankyness significantly
- Now spare mana is 14 instead of 60 so I can't use mark on hit anymore
- Rares are tougher?
- So many other nerfs

It's hard not believe GGG dislikes melee. They have kept it worse, for years, and repeatedly attacked it where it shines. "it must do less and take more damage".

...And the whole "but legacy original sin builds are crazy!". Yes, that build is crazy if you got the legacy unique and invested heavily into multiple mirror-tier items. You're still squishy, but that build has heaps of dps! The Standard-exclusive, successful melee build exception makes the rool!

I can't justify playing this dead game anymore...over 10 years later, I now hate PoE. Thank god for all those "on special" MTX.

If anything, the forum's constant complaints about melee made me love it more.