How is this game playable in melee?

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Xyel wrote:

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kuciol wrote:

Ive repeated this for the past 6 years, melee will never be good. It will never compete with ranged things. Stop comparing them. Its melee mechanical limitations that makes it impossible to compete. In order to fix this you would have to make so many changes to the core of the game that it will no longer be PoE.

Nah, bach in legion, cyclone (not coc, just cyclone), was the top meta build. There also used to be a molten strike meta. There's nothing fundamental about melee being bad, it's just that these days melee skill gems, aside from like 2, do too little damage.

Neither 3.07 cyclone nor molten strike back when it was meta had anything to do with melee though. Cyclone was basically a screenwide tornado mowing everything down and molten strike would shoot projectiles everywhere while standing in place, not even hitting anything. The only thing "melee" they had was the tag and if you want powerful builds with melee tag there is no shortage of them even now, they all have one thing in common though, they aren't "real melee".

If your lacking in damage it's most likely a matter of having a bad weapon. I never had any damage issues last league, at no point of the game.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Neither 3.07 cyclone nor molten strike back when it was meta had anything to do with melee though. Cyclone was basically a screenwide tornado mowing everything down and molten strike would shoot projectiles everywhere while standing in place, not even hitting anything. The only thing "melee" they had was the tag and if you want powerful builds with melee tag there is no shortage of them even now, they all have one thing in common though, they aren't "real melee".

If your lacking in damage it's most likely a matter of having a bad weapon. I never had any damage issues last league, at no point of the game.

I had a weapon appropriate for the stage of progression, and about the same level (<5c rare) as the bow. The point is the comparison, not the absolute value.

Though tbf, this league's mechanic is wildly overtuned compared to the few previous ones.

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You know that GGG is just going to nerf Boneshatter and Frostblade and not fix everything else because of these complaints right?

Yes, you are correct , i change the argument:

Without buff-totem-movement(leap/charge/flicker/blink)-trigger-guard-vaal-minion-trap skills in total
Melee active skills ≈ 38 , 4 is being used in top 50 = %8
Bow active skills ≈ 21 , 8 is being used in top 50 = %38
Spell active skills ≈ 65 , 13 is being used in top 50 = %20
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Minion active skill ≈ 10 , 3 is being used in top 50 = %30
Trap active skill ≈ 11 , 6 is being used in top 50 = %54
Sorry for other styles like as totem-trigger-movement...

Arrangement according usage percentages ≈
1. Trap %54
2. Bow %38
3. Minion %30
4. Spell %20
5. Melee %8

And im sure you know that this is the situation for lots of leagues, traps and bows in lead.

There should be some reason:
? Supporter stlyes
? melee is less complex , no fun to be improved by developers

I don't know , but this is the reality and the reason of sending away melee stylist players from to best strategic ARPG game of the present day.

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Xyel wrote:

Nah, bach in legion, cyclone (not coc, just cyclone), was the top meta build. There also used to be a molten strike meta. There's nothing fundamental about melee being bad, it's just that these days melee skill gems, aside from like 2, do too little damage.

In legion top meta was ED and HH builds, the cyclone was just enabler of HH. Few outliers over the years wont change the fact that melee is mechanicaly screwed because of how PoE in general is. The game is just to over the top in every aspect for it to be relevant. You would have to redo everything, from monster density, through broken recovery, damage output to movent speeds.

The main problem with melee is not the damage, melee can do pretty much anything range builds can in terms of dps, in the end it doesnt matter if you kill shaper in 0.1s or 0.15s. The problem is that melee cant afford to sacrifice defenses. Thats the fundamental flaw melee has. In a world where you count dps in shapers per second giving more damge is not a solution.

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Xyel wrote:

As a fun experiment, I took my ws raider, bought a bow for a few C, respecced my tree with free points, and bought a set of lvl1 gems from Lily to switch to LA / AB.

No quiver, scuffed tree with a bunch of claw nodes, lvl1 gems, and I have ~3x the clear, 2x the single target, and an order of magnitude better survival.

Yeah, melee skills are perfectly fine :D

someone finally gets it.


Melee is fine...as long as you don't play it.

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kuciol wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

Nah, bach in legion, cyclone (not coc, just cyclone), was the top meta build. There also used to be a molten strike meta. There's nothing fundamental about melee being bad, it's just that these days melee skill gems, aside from like 2, do too little damage.

In legion top meta was ED and HH builds, the cyclone was just enabler of HH. Few outliers over the years wont change the fact that melee is mechanicaly screwed because of how PoE in general is. The game is just to over the top in every aspect for it to be relevant. You would have to redo everything, from monster density, through broken recovery, damage output to movent speeds.

The main problem with melee is not the damage, melee can do pretty much anything range builds can in terms of dps, in the end it doesnt matter if you kill shaper in 0.1s or 0.15s. The problem is that melee cant afford to sacrifice defenses. Thats the fundamental flaw melee has. In a world where you count dps in shapers per second giving more damge is not a solution.

DPS has progression stages, from lvl1 to shapers per second. The problem isn't really on the high end, as Mathil likes to show in his videos. The problem is that you don't start there and need to get there first, and that the path should be fun.

As for why damage solves everything, as is obvious on the example of boneshatter being perfectly viable, unlike almost all other melee skills.

The more damage a skill does, the fewer resources need to be spent on damage, so the more resources are available for defenses. More damage = more free resources = better defenses.

All builds are viable it just depends what you want to do with it and how far you want to push it, not everyone wants to rape everything instantly, not everyone has a desire to push end game but rather just chill and mob around

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Xyel wrote:

DPS has progression stages, from lvl1 to shapers per second. The problem isn't really on the high end, as Mathil likes to show in his videos. The problem is that you don't start there and need to get there first, and that the path should be fun.

As for why damage solves everything, as is obvious on the example of boneshatter being perfectly viable, unlike almost all other melee skills.

The more damage a skill does, the fewer resources need to be spent on damage, so the more resources are available for defenses. More damage = more free resources = better defenses.

You are calling 10ex / div setup "top end"? Boneshatter is not viable because of damage, there are melee skills that will outperform it in that aspect like ancestral call and vaal double strike, its the build as a whole. It forces you to get defense, sort of like shield skills did. Also BS is not even close to any meta ranged skill. Melee will never be viable in PoE when compared to ranged options.

ok kuciol, if damage isnt the pb, then i could take a melee skill and give it infinite damage and it woulndt matter. so let s just give infinte damage to tectonic slam, would it be meta ?

answer is yes and you re a genius

Very valid argument you got there "lets make skill broken to make it viable". If you want such comparison than give all the skills infinite dmg and guess what? Range will still be better. Now stop being &#_$#5@ and think about solutions that wont break the game.