0.9.10 Information and News

I like the poster board for parties. I remember talking to one of the devs about something like that a few weeks ago. Would also like to see the upcoming league events posted there too.


Peep

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solistus wrote:

I have to say, I really dislike the design philosophy of the super short timer loot allocation system. I had previously heard that GGG planned to do timer-based loot instancing, but I was thinking more along the lines of a couple minutes or at least 15-20 seconds, not 1 second + travel time. Frankly, that just sounds obnoxious.

I don't think it's at all appropriate to try and maintain a 'cutthroat' atmosphere between voluntary members of a party, or to encourage players in a group constantly stopping anything productive to dart in and grab items midway through a fight. This won't solve any of my objections to the loot system and I don't see myself enjoying public group play at all if the allocation period isn't substantially longer or permanent. Separate rules for non-grouped players in cutthroat would be awesome, but the priority should absolutely be making group play more enjoyable and playable.

I guess it's probably too late for my input to carry much weight after a 124 page discussion thread about it, but I'll keep complaining in hopes that this will get re-revisited before or early into Open Beta. The shared loot system is BY FAR my single biggest gripe with the game, and I don't think this really solves the problem at all.

I like everything else I see in the announcement, but this one really bothers me. This is the change I was looking forward to. Hopefully I'm not alone on this one and GGG will reconsider based on additional feedback. The system they have now with a much longer timer would be absolutely fine, but as it stands it sounds like an anti-fun mechanic that discourages grouping. I don't think there needs to be a 'cutthroat' atmosphere between players who are allegedly choosing to cooperate, outside of Cutthroat league events.

There is a big flaw in your reasoning. You forget that the long timer is a nuisance if the assigned player doesn't want the item but someone else does. If we did it your way, groups would be slowed so that they can pick the items they want.

GGG's method doesn't force the players to be aggresive with their peers, it just asks for efficiency, and rewards it. 10/10 for their solution.

I'm a bit concerned about the uses of Frost Wall to prevent looting though...

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dirtydeeds131182 wrote:

so charan can u share your unique item with us yet or a lil hint?

Here.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/31308/page/2

Posted it a while back, actually. I really, really can't express how proud I am of it.

Named public games is a needed improvement. The short loot timer is a nice compromise to prevent the most notorious "loot stealers" when something of great importance drops. Great job!

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solistus wrote:

I have to say, I really dislike the design philosophy of the super short timer loot allocation system. I had previously heard that GGG planned to do timer-based loot instancing, but I was thinking more along the lines of a couple minutes or at least 15-20 seconds, not 1 second + travel time. Frankly, that just sounds obnoxious.

I don't think it's at all appropriate to try and maintain a 'cutthroat' atmosphere between voluntary members of a party, or to encourage players in a group constantly stopping anything productive to dart in and grab items midway through a fight. This won't solve any of my objections to the loot system and I don't see myself enjoying public group play at all if the allocation period isn't substantially longer or permanent.

if the drops were permanently assigned to a player it means some really nice items would be left completely unused, like a marauder getting a unique bow drop. he could pick it up and share it or trade it, but that takes some coordinating, and if you're already in such a party, then shared drops shouldn't be a big problem to begin with.

and as someone mentioned already, extended timers would just slow down the entire party. but i could def see players stopping in the middle of action to go and pick up an item, which could be damaging to the team in the midst of a mob fight. i guess there isn't one system that will be perfect for everyone's style. best to try the new system when it comes out, and offer feedback once its been played for a bit.

The looting time limit has to be kept small or else it alienates people wanting to play in parties. If you had to wait 15-20 seconds a few times for a drop you wants it would seriously slow down peoples pace and a lot of people who would have otherwise been interested in parties would go solo instead.
As a consequence, parties would be near impossible to form in any event/race if you were having to stop and wait all the time because no one would want to disadvantage themselves.
There is a quote that I like in the loading screen that you might like that goes along the lines of "Be polite to people if you want to be invited back to parties", and quite frankly excessive looting is quite rude. So you wouldnt re-party that type of person.

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Falcord wrote:

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solistus wrote:

I have to say, I really dislike the design philosophy of the super short timer loot allocation system. I had previously heard that GGG planned to do timer-based loot instancing, but I was thinking more along the lines of a couple minutes or at least 15-20 seconds, not 1 second + travel time. Frankly, that just sounds obnoxious.

I don't think it's at all appropriate to try and maintain a 'cutthroat' atmosphere between voluntary members of a party, or to encourage players in a group constantly stopping anything productive to dart in and grab items midway through a fight. This won't solve any of my objections to the loot system and I don't see myself enjoying public group play at all if the allocation period isn't substantially longer or permanent. Separate rules for non-grouped players in cutthroat would be awesome, but the priority should absolutely be making group play more enjoyable and playable.

I guess it's probably too late for my input to carry much weight after a 124 page discussion thread about it, but I'll keep complaining in hopes that this will get re-revisited before or early into Open Beta. The shared loot system is BY FAR my single biggest gripe with the game, and I don't think this really solves the problem at all.

I like everything else I see in the announcement, but this one really bothers me. This is the change I was looking forward to. Hopefully I'm not alone on this one and GGG will reconsider based on additional feedback. The system they have now with a much longer timer would be absolutely fine, but as it stands it sounds like an anti-fun mechanic that discourages grouping. I don't think there needs to be a 'cutthroat' atmosphere between players who are allegedly choosing to cooperate, outside of Cutthroat league events.

There is a big flaw in your reasoning. You forget that the long timer is a nuisance if the assigned player doesn't want the item but someone else does. If we did it your way, groups would be slowed so that they can pick the items they want.

GGG's method doesn't force the players to be aggresive with their peers, it just asks for efficiency, and rewards it. 10/10 for their solution.

I'm a bit concerned about the uses of Frost Wall to prevent looting though...

That's not a flaw with my reasoning; it's another, separate issue to consider. All of my points still stand. Regarding this 'flaw', a few things:

1. You can always pick up the item and trade it to whoever wants it. What was all that about asking for and rewarding efficiency? Why can't this be the form of efficiency that is rewarded?

2. Many games have totally separate loot instances. Just because an item I want drops for you, doesn't mean I should be entitled to pick it up if you don't. If I want it enough to say something, you can pick it up and trade it to me. Otherwise, it's obviously not a big deal to me, so who cares? Plenty of items will drop in solo games and never get picked up because nobody who wanted it ever saw it.

3. If the delay is, say, 5-10 seconds, the inconvenience here would be trivial. By the time you are really sure that the other person doesn't want the item, the timer will be up and you can pick it up yourself.

4. GGG's method may not "force" people to be aggressive or selfish, but it actively encourages the idea that doing so is expected and acceptable behavior. This will make public parties an 'acquired taste' to put it nicely. If I join a coop game mode with a stranger, I don't want game systems designed specifically to make me feel more 'cutthroat' with my teammates. That's the exact opposite of what I want.

5. The problem you outline is 100% inevitable with any system that isn't a total loot free-for-all. You can look to every coop RPG-type game with loot that has ever had a non-FFA loot system for a variety of approaches to mitigating this issue.

Long story short, I'd rather have people be 'inconvenienced' by having to communicate with their teammates to get items nobody else wanted, than to be inconvenienced and also totally ruin the experience of working as a party when someone ninjas loot I *did* want. The latter is much, much more disruptive to enjoying group play.

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AlienFromBeyond wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Try it next week and let us know what you think. We're trying to keep the frantic item-grab moment while still allowing ranged character (and players with higher latency) enough time to react.

Except that if there are still enemies in melee making it unsafe to go get your loot it'll sit there and once the timer wears off the melee will just take it anyways. This is one of the few things Diablo 3 got right, please just have loot per for each individual player like it.

This is probably one of the best things about Diablo III. I'll never play that now I am hooked on PoE but that loot system in it was certainly what we need in other online games.

Any chance perhaps of a need/greed roll system for rares like in WOW?

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Metronomy wrote:

The looting time limit has to be kept small or else it alienates people wanting to play in parties. If you had to wait 15-20 seconds a few times for a drop you wants it would seriously slow down peoples pace and a lot of people who would have otherwise been interested in parties would go solo instead.
As a consequence, parties would be near impossible to form in any event/race if you were having to stop and wait all the time because no one would want to disadvantage themselves.
Falcord, there is a quote that I like in the loading screen that you might like that goes along the lines of "Be polite to people if you want to be invited back to parties", and quite frankly excessive looting is quite rude. So you wouldnt re-party that type of person.

Unless each person's individually allocated loot pool was equal to or greater than the loot pool they would expect to see while soloing, due to some combination of more items dropping and more enemies killed per minute while grouping. That's how D3 and virtually every other cooperative RPG in recent memory incentivizes groups without relying on FFA looting rules. I'm honestly confused why so many people here seem insistent that only FFA looting or something very close to it could ever possibly work in a game like this, when there are so many examples of other systems that work better.

I am looking forward for this patch.

The only thing that i don't like is not having an option for individual loot.

(I made my point on the feedback thread earlier so i won't make this post a tldr)