widescreen resolution removed from the game.

"
Ulsarek wrote:
How this is still up for debate is beyond me. GGG put a limit in place because the game was never designed for such resolutions and actively broke the game. Just because it wasn't apparent to the average user doesn't mean those problems didn't exist.

Just from the top of my head, to name a few:
• You could see entities spawning in at the edge of your screen and position or navigate accordingly
• More often than not said entities weren't even properly loading in, t-posing wasn't uncommon
• As stated by GGG themselves, such resolutions caused unintended behaviour and fucked with their server load
• Major advantage, you could essentially offscreen packs and bosses with little effort
• Bosses don't have infinite enmity range, some could be offscreened without them even moving towards the player
• You couldn't click on the map or loot items beyond a certain area on your screen

There was even a popular case 4 years ago during the China race where the streamer Ventrua used a very wide resolution to offscreen Baran with Essence Drain during said race. He pretty much sat at the edge of the arena and slowly killed the boss without the boss even moving. This could be applied to many bosses and thus indeed is beyond broken and a unfair advantage. (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/i7qq7n/ventrua_exploiting_ultrawide_in_china_race/)

32:9 and beyond working in the first place was an oversight. GGG most likely never thought of it and once they started to identify problems a solution was applied.

One could argue black bars are a bad solution but then again it isn't uncommon in the industry and much easier to implement than fixing whatever else gets broken by these ridiculous resolutions. Elden Ring also doesn't allow widescreen for these reasons. GGG did the right thing here.

Besides widescreen still works, 21:9 is a significant upgrade over 16:9 but doesn't break anything.


Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments.

I don't agree, as I've argued throughout this thread, that these points validate the decision to "solve" the problem by implementing black bars in the main game. I agree that 32:9 (and, I would argue, even 21:9) should be banned from races and PvP modes, but black bars are the laziest and most clumsy possible "fix" for the main game.

For one thing, it's an overstatement to say 32:9 broke the game. Every instance you mention of 32:9 "breaking" something in the regular noncompetitive modes could have been solved by bug fixes or fog of war, either of which would be a far better solution.

I also would argue that GGG's "my servers are melting" reasoning is complete nonsense and just them grasping at straws to justify a lazy design choice. This issue affects something on the order of 0.5% of their players. That's just not significant enough to meaningfully affect their overall server load. Also, it is not right for a company to pass problems on their backend off to their paying customers. Players pay GGG so they can support their staff and all their technical backend. Slapping black bars on player screens to save 1% server load is not acceptable, particularly for a company their size.

GGG did the lazy thing here, not the right thing. Bug fixes and/or possibly a fog of war or FoV system would be GGG doing the right thing.
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70 on May 31, 2024, 10:51:16 AM
"
ArtCrusade wrote:
"
Echothesis wrote:
Poe is built around UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, no? You don't need more visible FOV to make offscreen clearing char, which alleviates one of the main race hindrances - random BS deaths from nowhere. How is "GGG should fix combat balance first, not make a half-arsed solution in the form of black bars" for an argument?


PoE players: "Dying to offscreen attacks is unfair and shouldn't be a thing"
Also PoE players: "Seeing enemies that would normally be offscreen is not a competitive advantage!"

Hngh.


Point was, in PoE, seeing more enemies is irrelevant when you can also wipe them offscreen regardless of whether you see or not :) Not even talking about 5-way KB builds, basic ice shot is decent offscreen shooter with GMP and proj speed.

So a subset of builds still has effective range advantage with all the black bars, while couple of people here cheer as GGG had "fixed competitive play", lol.

Yes, dying to offscreen attacks should not be a thing. In addition, delivering offscreen attacks also should not be a thing, and can be fixed trivially by limiting skill cast ranges and projectiles flight distance, regardless of FOV.
"
Echothesis wrote:

Yes, dying to offscreen attacks should not be a thing.


You do something merely wrong if you die to "off screen attacks" cause there's not a single case of a single big random off screen attack in the game without obvious indicators.

Enemies in maps rarely to never hit you unless you are within proximity range. Others don't even one shot you or shouldn't one shot you at all unless your build is on the weaker side and can't take any hits at all which is a problem on your side and not the games side.

The Sirus die beam for example is also not a random off screen attack as it has two obvious indicators, a sound cue along with also a visual cue which makes it very easy to tell his positioning. Another case of the players fault if they die to that lol
Flames and madness. I'm so glad I didn't miss the fun.
Last edited by Pashid on May 31, 2024, 12:49:11 PM
"
tackle70 wrote:


Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments.



The effort of replies against ultrawide was proportional to the amount of effort you put in that it should be allowed.

"I bought a niche resolution monitor so they should support it".

Was given the statement from GGG that took as much effort as it took you to come up with your argument.

"I disagree"

That person just actually put in more effort to give examples that the statement referred to.

In the future if you want better arguments against you, have better arguments for it.
"
Dozer72 wrote:
"
tackle70 wrote:


Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments.



The effort of replies against ultrawide was proportional to the amount of effort you put in that it should be allowed.

"I bought a niche resolution monitor so they should support it".

Was given the statement from GGG that took as much effort as it took you to come up with your argument.

"I disagree"

That person just actually put in more effort to give examples that the statement referred to.

In the future if you want better arguments against you, have better arguments for it.


I have consistently replied when people make actual arguments. I have presented my own, which have largely not been rebutted in almost 2 years. It does not follow that because I bump the thread each day, fallacious non-sequitors and bad faith non-arguments are appropriate.

What's particularly amusing to me is that there's a very simple argument in favor of black bars that I don't think anyone has yet made - "It's not worth the dev time to solve these problems affecting 0.5% of players, so this lazy/bad fix of black bars is fine". I can only speculate why nobody is making that argument, but it makes me suspect people arguing for black bars just want to defend GGG, rather than engage with the substance of the issue.
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70 on May 31, 2024, 6:33:39 PM
"
tackle70 wrote:


What's particularly amusing to me is that there's a very simple argument in favor of black bars that I don't think anyone has yet made - "It's not worth the dev time to solve these problems affecting 0.5% of players, so this lazy/bad fix of black bars is fine". I can only speculate why nobody is making that argument, but it makes me suspect people arguing for black bars just want to defend GGG, rather than engage with the substance of the issue.


You do forget that it's not just GGG cause in fact lots of games don't support 32:9 and not even 21:9. If it was that easy to implement 32:9 without big bugs into games every game would have the support by now. Thinking that it only takes a little bit of time and that devs are lazy is quite a bold assumption.
But honestly I can't really blame any dev for the choice to put time and money into more important matters instead of something that only affects not even 0.1% of the player base.
People with a 32:9 took the gamble knowing that they may do encounter games that won't support it so it's not really any devs job to fix anyone's bad choices.
32:9 are nice as a work space if you don't want to deal with cable management of multiple screens, but as is for gaming it's just not advanced enough yet. Hell funny enough even the older tech 21:9 isn't even fully supported these days.
Flames and madness. I'm so glad I didn't miss the fun.
"
tackle70 wrote:


I have consistently replied when people make actual arguments.


Then it should be copy and pasted under you "its been xxx days" spam. I haven't seen a single rational argument for them spending any time on it.
"
tackle70 wrote:

If you want to argue that black bars are a defensible, logical inclusion in this game, the basic argument that needs refutation is as follows:

"
tackle70 wrote:

I don't feel like repeating myself for the millionth time as to the substance here for why black bars are an objectively bad design choice with zero rational defense. You can read the thread if you want. the TL;DR is:
  • This is a non-competitive PvE game
  • It's OK to remove ultrawide support for competitive modes e.g. PVP/prize races, but this does not necessitate removal for the base game
  • There are many allowed hardware and software advantages, many of which arguably impact the game much more than 32:9 gameplay; selectively removing one is nothing but arbitrary
  • Ultrawide users can work around this anyway, so this doesn't actually solve any problems from "bad actors" or people intent on exploits. Only regular players following TOS are affected.
  • If there are problems with ultrawide resolutions, black bars are not an acceptable solution. Multiple acceptable alternatives throughout this thread have been presented - fog of war, AI adjustments, variable FOV, bug fixes, etc.


For black bars to be OK and for this thread to go away, two things must both be true - first, the advantage given by 32:9 is a problem and needs to be removed and second, black bars are the appropriate way to do this.


1 year, 288 days

Fix it
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
No to unfair advantage, thanks.
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"

I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
"
Nomancs wrote:
No to unfair advantage, thanks.


Fully agreed, and in case of PoE black bars do absolutely nothing to combat unfair advantage even if they were immutable :)

If we are going to copypaste same thing without actually addressing contradicting arguments above, I can do it too, you still haven't explained why am I wrong in your opinion :)

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