widescreen resolution removed from the game.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

How have we gone from "Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments."

Spoiler

"

tackle70 wrote:

"

Ulsarek wrote:

How this is still up for debate is beyond me. GGG put a limit in place because the game was never designed for such resolutions and actively broke the game. Just because it wasn't apparent to the average user doesn't mean those problems didn't exist.

Just from the top of my head, to name a few:
• You could see entities spawning in at the edge of your screen and position or navigate accordingly
• More often than not said entities weren't even properly loading in, t-posing wasn't uncommon
• As stated by GGG themselves, such resolutions caused unintended behaviour and fucked with their server load
• Major advantage, you could essentially offscreen packs and bosses with little effort
• Bosses don't have infinite enmity range, some could be offscreened without them even moving towards the player
• You couldn't click on the map or loot items beyond a certain area on your screen

There was even a popular case 4 years ago during the China race where the streamer Ventrua used a very wide resolution to offscreen Baran with Essence Drain during said race. He pretty much sat at the edge of the arena and slowly killed the boss without the boss even moving. This could be applied to many bosses and thus indeed is beyond broken and a unfair advantage. (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/i7qq7n/ventrua_exploiting_ultrawide_in_china_race/)

32:9 and beyond working in the first place was an oversight. GGG most likely never thought of it and once they started to identify problems a solution was applied.

One could argue black bars are a bad solution but then again it isn't uncommon in the industry and much easier to implement than fixing whatever else gets broken by these ridiculous resolutions. Elden Ring also doesn't allow widescreen for these reasons. GGG did the right thing here.

Besides widescreen still works, 21:9 is a significant upgrade over 16:9 but doesn't break anything.

Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments.

I don't agree, as I've argued throughout this thread, that these points validate the decision to "solve" the problem by implementing black bars in the main game. I agree that 32:9 (and, I would argue, even 21:9) should be banned from races and PvP modes, but black bars are the laziest and most clumsy possible "fix" for the main game.

For one thing, it's an overstatement to say 32:9 broke the game. Every instance you mention of 32:9 "breaking" something in the regular noncompetitive modes could have been solved by bug fixes or fog of war, either of which would be a far better solution.

I also would argue that GGG's "my servers are melting" reasoning is complete nonsense and just them grasping at straws to justify a lazy design choice. This issue affects something on the order of 0.5% of their players. That's just not significant enough to meaningfully affect their overall server load. Also, it is not right for a company to pass problems on their backend off to their paying customers. Players pay GGG so they can support their staff and all their technical backend. Slapping black bars on player screens to save 1% server load is not acceptable, particularly for a company their size.

GGG did the lazy thing here, not the right thing. Bug fixes and/or possibly a fog of war or FoV system would be GGG doing the right thing.

To what I can only call gaslighting right here:

Spoiler

"

tackle70 wrote:

"

Echothesis wrote:

So far haven't seen an argument against what I said 2 pages ago, about why the rest of black bars solution working rather poorly and should either be fixed or removed.

There are no defensible arguments in favor of black bars, and none have been offered in 1 year, 291 days.

Fix it.

Actually downright toxic.

Sure.

Screen:
Disclaimer: Calculations within 1% margin of error.
A)U.Wide. 1132 x 1.27 = 1437.64 pixels. 13,5% wider for each side. 305 pixels wider than standard.
B)16:9. 1132 pixels wide.

Wide Range Reference:
16:9(Top).
Stacked: U.Wide > 16:9 > 4:3 (Middle).
U.Wide (Bottom).
Strong Box Reference (Middle Left).
All images stacked adequately to assure quality.


Skill in Question:
Tornado Shot
Lightning Strike
Bladestorm

Empirical Tests:
The baseline used was un-juiced T16 with 90%+ quant.

Tree used:


Map Sample used:


Videos:
Tests for U.Wide vs 16:9 agro distance.
U.Wide x 16:9 Top Left against mildly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8z8S/125159ac5a.mp4.
Enemies do not agro.

Wide x 16.9 Approach against fairly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8zaw/ea95ea59e7.mp4.
16:9 enemies agro.

Direct horizontal Sight wide:https://puu.sh/K8zc4/b4955c3af5.mp4.
10 seconds to agro.

Direct horizontal Sight 16:9:https://puu.sh/K8zc7/199e978cbc.mp4.
Instant agro.

This proves an advantage exists. But you might as well say that it's impractical to use it on a regular play.

Extra paper 0% exp TS Build:
Build proof:


Essence Monster 1 x 0% exp TS build:
https://puu.sh/K8zj6/c7e5856e6a.mp4.
@24 seconds, meteor does 3/4 of my life. Unsafe at 16:9. Pretty safe at U.Wide.

Essence Monster 2 x 0% exp TS build:
Wide x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zto/4729d40dee.mp4
I can reliably keep track of him. Blood corruption rarely spawns near me. Yes, i smooth brained near the end with 16:9.
16:9 x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zty/920fc8e23c.mp4
I can't keep track of him in the same way. Blood corruption spawns near me constantly. I could attack from offscreen, but that diminishes damage substantially.

The survivability aspect i'm putting in question pertains to the distance one has from the monsters when you are playing an absolute paper build.

The damage aspect i'm putting in questions pertains to the damage output sustainability and increased damage from Far Shot.

But you are probably right, MB is not budget friendly. You know what is? Headhunter. https://poe.ninja/economy/necropolis/unique-accessories?name=Headhunter
Which also makes able to do relatively juiced maps with mirror of delirium. I made a video with the same character but it was too large and i don't have a way to cut it atm.

Oneshot BS build:
Build proof. Forgot about life: 5693 mana:851 ES:0.


Essence Monster 3 x Paper(?) BS build x 4:3:
https://puu.sh/K8zyc/6dcbc00b24.mp4

Then we convert that same BS build to the same stats as the TS build:


Essence Monster 4 x Paper BS Build:
https://puu.sh/K8zFX/2f6a915de8.mp4
Yeah.

So, should you get U.Wide or keep 16:9?
Tornado Shot: U.Wide gives QoL and damage increase for TS and similar builds.
Lightning Strike: similar performance, but has tradeoff as projectiles do less damage.
Bladestorm: literal waste of money.

"

Echothesis wrote:

- Conclusion 6: Fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities, including one known as "Ultrawide aspect ratio attack range".

Let's see what you concluded and apply it to a few simple questions:
U.Wide doesn't affect tanky builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect oneshot builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect melee builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL. LS is not melee. /s.
U.Wide doesn't affect ranged builds? Partially correct. It will increase Tornado Shot and Toxic Rain damage and survivability(builds that need to click on the enemy location precisely), but Kinetic Bolt, Split Arrow and other projectile based builds are unaffected.
U.Wide doesn't affect paper builds? You would be incorrect. U.Wide is large enough so that it can and will affect mapping survivability and visibility.


Which makes me wonder. You yourself said that U.Wide "has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities", yet i've proved the advantage exists and i've proved that it does affect survivability in projectile paper builds, and let me stress this again, does fuck all for melee, so i'll ask again, why try to force GGG do address something that beyond U.Wide is at best useless, by your own words, and at worst gives an advantage to mostly ranged builds, also being a QoL that GGG doesn't benefit one cent off of?

Sure.

Screen:
Disclaimer: Calculations within 1% margin of error.
A)U.Wide. 1132 x 1.27 = 1437.64 pixels. 13,5% wider for each side. 305 pixels wider than standard.
B)16:9. 1132 pixels wide.

Wide Range Reference:
16:9(Top).
Stacked: U.Wide > 16:9 > 4:3 (Middle).
U.Wide (Bottom).
Strong Box Reference (Middle Left).
All images stacked adequately to assure quality.


Skill in Question:
Tornado Shot
Lightning Strike
Bladestorm

Empirical Tests:
The baseline used was un-juiced T16 with 90%+ quant.

Tree used:


Map Sample used:


Videos:
Tests for U.Wide vs 16:9 agro distance.
U.Wide x 16:9 Top Left against mildly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8z8S/125159ac5a.mp4.
Enemies do not agro.

Wide x 16.9 Approach against fairly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8zaw/ea95ea59e7.mp4.
16:9 enemies agro.

Direct horizontal Sight wide:https://puu.sh/K8zc4/b4955c3af5.mp4.
10 seconds to agro.

Direct horizontal Sight 16:9:https://puu.sh/K8zc7/199e978cbc.mp4.
Instant agro.

This proves an advantage exists. But you might as well say that it's impractical to use it on a regular play.

Extra paper 0% exp TS Build:
Build proof:


Essence Monster 1 x 0% exp TS build:
https://puu.sh/K8zj6/c7e5856e6a.mp4.
@24 seconds, meteor does 3/4 of my life. Unsafe at 16:9. Pretty safe at U.Wide.

Essence Monster 2 x 0% exp TS build:
Wide x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zto/4729d40dee.mp4
I can reliably keep track of him. Blood corruption rarely spawns near me. Yes, i smooth brained near the end with 16:9.
16:9 x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zty/920fc8e23c.mp4
I can't keep track of him in the same way. Blood corruption spawns near me constantly. I could attack from offscreen, but that diminishes damage substantially.

The survivability aspect i'm putting in question pertains to the distance one has from the monsters when you are playing an absolute paper build.

The damage aspect i'm putting in questions pertains to the damage output sustainability and increased damage from Far Shot.

But you are probably right, MB is not budget friendly. You know what is? Headhunter. https://poe.ninja/economy/necropolis/unique-accessories?name=Headhunter
Which also makes able to do relatively juiced maps with mirror of delirium. I made a video with the same character but it was too large and i don't have a way to cut it atm.

Oneshot BS build:
Build proof. Forgot about life: 5693 mana:851 ES:0.


Essence Monster 3 x Paper(?) BS build x 4:3:
https://puu.sh/K8zyc/6dcbc00b24.mp4

Then we convert that same BS build to the same stats as the TS build:


Essence Monster 4 x Paper BS Build:
https://puu.sh/K8zFX/2f6a915de8.mp4
Yeah.

So, should you get U.Wide or keep 16:9?
Tornado Shot: U.Wide gives QoL and damage increase for TS and similar builds.
Lightning Strike: similar performance, but has tradeoff as projectiles do less damage.
Bladestorm: literal waste of money.

"

Echothesis wrote:

- Conclusion 6: Fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities, including one known as "Ultrawide aspect ratio attack range".

Let's see what you concluded and apply it to a few simple questions:
U.Wide doesn't affect tanky builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect oneshot builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect melee builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL. LS is not melee. /s.
U.Wide doesn't affect ranged builds? Partially correct. It will increase Tornado Shot and Toxic Rain damage and survivability(builds that need to click on the enemy location precisely), but Kinetic Bolt, Split Arrow and other projectile based builds are unaffected.
U.Wide doesn't affect paper builds? You would be incorrect. U.Wide is large enough so that it can and will affect mapping survivability and visibility.


Which makes me wonder. You yourself said that U.Wide "has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities", yet i've proved the advantage exists and i've proved that it does affect survivability in projectile paper builds, and let me stress this again, does fuck all for melee, so i'll ask again, why try to force GGG do address something that beyond U.Wide is at best useless, by your own words, and at worst gives an advantage to mostly ranged builds, also being a QoL that GGG doesn't benefit one cent off of?

Sure.

Screen:
Disclaimer: Calculations within 1% margin of error.
A)U.Wide. 1132 x 1.27 = 1437.64 pixels. 13,5% wider for each side. 305 pixels wider than standard.
B)16:9. 1132 pixels wide.

Wide Range Reference:
16:9(Top).
Stacked: U.Wide > 16:9 > 4:3 (Middle).
U.Wide (Bottom).
Strong Box Reference (Middle Left).
All images stacked adequately to assure quality.


Skill in Question:
Tornado Shot
Lightning Strike
Bladestorm

Empirical Tests:
The baseline used was un-juiced T16 with 90%+ quant.

Tree used:


Map Sample used:


Videos:
Tests for U.Wide vs 16:9 agro distance.
U.Wide x 16:9 Top Left against mildly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8z8S/125159ac5a.mp4.
Enemies do not agro.

Wide x 16.9 Approach against fairly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8zaw/ea95ea59e7.mp4.
16:9 enemies agro.

Direct horizontal Sight wide:https://puu.sh/K8zc4/b4955c3af5.mp4.
10 seconds to agro.

Direct horizontal Sight 16:9:https://puu.sh/K8zc7/199e978cbc.mp4.
Instant agro.

This proves an advantage exists. But you might as well say that it's impractical to use it on a regular play.

Extra paper 0% exp TS Build:
Build proof:


Essence Monster 1 x 0% exp TS build:
https://puu.sh/K8zj6/c7e5856e6a.mp4.
@24 seconds, meteor does 3/4 of my life. Unsafe at 16:9. Pretty safe at U.Wide.

Essence Monster 2 x 0% exp TS build:
Wide x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zto/4729d40dee.mp4
I can reliably keep track of him. Blood corruption rarely spawns near me. Yes, i smooth brained near the end with 16:9.
16:9 x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zty/920fc8e23c.mp4
I can't keep track of him in the same way. Blood corruption spawns near me constantly. I could attack from offscreen, but that diminishes damage substantially.

The survivability aspect i'm putting in question pertains to the distance one has from the monsters when you are playing an absolute paper build.

The damage aspect i'm putting in questions pertains to the damage output sustainability and increased damage from Far Shot.

But you are probably right, MB is not budget friendly. You know what is? Headhunter. https://poe.ninja/economy/necropolis/unique-accessories?name=Headhunter
Which also makes able to do relatively juiced maps with mirror of delirium. I made a video with the same character but it was too large and i don't have a way to cut it atm.

Oneshot BS build:
Build proof. Forgot about life: 5693 mana:851 ES:0.


Essence Monster 3 x Paper(?) BS build x 4:3:
https://puu.sh/K8zyc/6dcbc00b24.mp4

Then we convert that same BS build to the same stats as the TS build:


Essence Monster 4 x Paper BS Build:
https://puu.sh/K8zFX/2f6a915de8.mp4
Yeah.

So, should you get U.Wide or keep 16:9?
Tornado Shot: U.Wide gives QoL and damage increase for TS and similar builds.
Lightning Strike: similar performance, but has tradeoff as projectiles do less damage.
Bladestorm: literal waste of money.

"

Echothesis wrote:

- Conclusion 6: Fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities, including one known as "Ultrawide aspect ratio attack range".

Let's see what you concluded and apply it to a few simple questions:
U.Wide doesn't affect tanky builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect oneshot builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect melee builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL. LS is not melee. /s.
U.Wide doesn't affect ranged builds? Partially correct. It will increase Tornado Shot and Toxic Rain damage and survivability(builds that need to click on the enemy location precisely), but Kinetic Bolt, Split Arrow and other projectile based builds are unaffected.
U.Wide doesn't affect paper builds? You would be incorrect. U.Wide is large enough so that it can and will affect mapping survivability and visibility.


Which makes me wonder. You yourself said that U.Wide "has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities", yet i've proved the advantage exists and i've proved that it does affect survivability in projectile paper builds, and let me stress this again, does fuck all for melee, so i'll ask again, why try to force GGG do address something that beyond U.Wide is at best useless, by your own words, and at worst gives an advantage to mostly ranged builds, also being a QoL that GGG doesn't benefit one cent off of?