The Self Found League

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Although that is getting off topic :-)

It may be off topic, but you got the right guy! You'll be really interested in The Schematic. Follow the link in my sig.

The 'spirit of self found' ISN'T to create a solo only league. That would be a 'Solo league' similar to what's done in Races.

Self Found's spirit is this: To remove Trading. The entire concept of 'no drop' is just because people will always find 'workarounds' to try to trade and get an advantage (oo I get to trade in a 'no trade league' WOOO). To be FULLY honest, the BIGGEST reason why I don't say "well let them risk it" is because it's going to create an entire class of folks scamming others and others whining about how they were scammed doing something they aren't supposed to, so might as well just stop it.

If GGG can't actually STOP drop-trade but will still offer a 'no trade' league with settings aimed at such, I'd still join. In the end, I don't CARE what others do. I care about MY game. Let others play how they play.


Bah, the ONLY reason why I'm even advocating this over just doing what I'm doing now (ignore Trade and go play) is because i fear that the changes I would want to add would hurt people who love trade, such as increasing the currency drops. If we could make those changes that help folks who don't Trade on the regular servers without ruining the trade economy then #$()$# Self Found.

We're NOT doing this to make some forced area that makes everyone play how YOU like to play. Forcing a Trader to not trade does NOTHING to how you play. If you're big thing is that you hate how others can benefit from something you don't want to do then I'll be blunt, you won't be made happy in this thread. Get over it and set your game how YOU play and be done with it.


PoE is unique in that almost everything that people do does not affect you if you don't want it to. If you hate to party, you can play the game without seeing anyone other than in town. If you hate the Stash..don't use it. If you hate magic using Marauders.. just don't use magic and kick anyone who plays as one or just play on your own.


So those proposing "stop people from doing this" leagues where the only difference is that people 'can't do this' then we'll need a #$()# good reason to make a entire league for that. No-Trade has offered theirs. You who want some 'solo play' mode need to offer theirs that does't get satisfied in here. Otherwise, I don't get why someone else doing something you aren't makes ANY difference to you and requires GGG going out of their way just to cater to it.

Thank you Dakarian. That passionate delivery really says it very well.


--C

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Dakarian wrote:

The 'spirit of self found' ISN'T to create a solo only league. That would be a 'Solo league' similar to what's done in Races.

Although you can argue that getting help from a party to find gear is not, almost by definition, finding it on your own.

But yes I appreciate that what people mean here by self found is as you describe.

Really like the idea of this

I would be against allowing partying since it just turns everything into a massive faceroll, there would be a huge gulf between those who choose to party and those who don't even if party members aren't able to trade with each other. Gear found while partying doesn't really fit my definition of self found.

Also I don't think there's any need to increase item drop rates, you can already do absolutely fine using only self found gear in current default/hardcore leagues. All that would be needed is slightly increased currency drop rates to make crafting gear a little more viable and make it possible to roll decent maps without having to spend all your currency to do it.

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I would be against allowing partying since it just turns everything into a massive faceroll, there would be a huge gulf between those who choose to party

Partying is item neutral. Reasoning:

1. Item drops are increased by 50% per party member past the first (250% increase in party of 6), however the people to divide the items between increase 500%. At first blush, this is a 1:2 reduction in total loot per player.

2. The above is corrected by kill speed. Mob health increases by 50% per player, however party DPS increases 100% per player, resulting in a 2:1 increase in damage dealt.

So: I therefore conclude neutral. There are other reasons to party (it's safer), however this has no bearing on income.

The minor possible advantage of a team of players playing together with the express intent of leaving items on the ground for their team mates is a possible reality. Three observations apply: 1) this just won't happen in pubs, and 2) any possible benefit that a group of players might get from this does not outweigh the disadvantage of excluding people who like to party from the league, and then 3) people who feel the way you do always have the option to show some self-restraint and not party; this fear of the lack of self-restraint does not justify a technical means of prohibiting others from doing so.

There's a valid point in that party players will possibly occupy higher positions on the ladder. If one is concerned about that, I suggest using the search button to find the "Permanent Solo League" thread.

--C

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Courageous wrote:

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I would be against allowing partying since it just turns everything into a massive faceroll, there would be a huge gulf between those who choose to party

Partying is item neutral. Reasoning:

1. Item drops are increased by 50% per party member past the first (250% increase in party of 6), however the people to divide the items between increase 500%. At first blush, this is a 1:2 reduction in total loot per player.

2. The above is corrected by kill speed. Mob health increases by 50% per player, however party DPS increases 100% per player, resulting in a 2:1 increase in damage dealt.

So: I therefore conclude neutral. There are other reasons to party (it's safer), however this has no bearing on income.

The minor possible advantage of a team of players playing together with the express intent of leaving items on the ground for their team mates is a possible reality. Three observations apply: 1) this just won't happen in pubs, and 2) any possible benefit that a group of players might get from this does not outweigh the disadvantage of excluding people who like to party from the league, and then 3) people who feel the way you do always have the option to show some self-restraint and not party; this fear of the lack of self-restraint does not justify a technical means of prohibiting others from doing so.

There's a valid point in that party players will possibly occupy higher positions on the ladder. If one is concerned about that, I suggest using the search button to find the "Permanent Solo League" thread.

--C

You missed out the apart about gear found in a party not being self found - that's a more important consideration for most people I think vs getting more/less loot while partied. I don't understand how partying can be compatible with playing self found.

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RandallPOE wrote:

You missed out the apart about gear found in a party not being self found - that's a more important consideration for most people I think vs getting more/less loot while partied. I don't understand how partying can be compatible with playing self found.

Then call it the 'no trade' party. I didn't name the thing 'self found'. It's not meant to keep the 'spirit of self found'.

It's a No Trade, Yes Party, Yes Share, Yes everything else in the game mode.

If you hate how it's named, then let's name it "no Trade" and be done with it. If you want a mode that has no partying or trading, you can propose it. You'd have to explain why we would need ANOTHER league that doesn't have partying when you can just not party and play solo as you like.

What changes would go into the game that would benefit solo play but hurt Party play, even IF we allowed Parties in the league. No Trade players CAN play Default/HC and just not trade, but the additional currency drops that would benefit them would RUIN Trade in a regular league. Instead of ruining Trade players, we're opting to split the two so that both sides can benefit from changes to fit them.

So let's assume that you aren't going to get any other league but Default/HC, but you get to propose any changes that would help solo play. What would you propose? What ones would you add that would make Party play extremely messed up?

(no saying some vague "well we can then have changes..." we don't make the league then think oup reasons to have the league. We need a reason why a person can't just play their way in a current league, OTHER than Player Envy)

Surely all we have here is two league ideas that seem to have some community support "Self Found" (aka No Trade) and "Solo" (aka "No Party No Trade") and, er, that's it. I don't understand why the suggestion needs to be more complicated than that.

It's drawn a big crowd of folks who are trying to create their own league off the back of this one.

Seriously. This is for the No Trade league. If you want other ideas create a post and we'll discuss it.

But no piggy backing. shoo shoo.