Energy Blade thoughts

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rekikyo wrote:

Spoiler

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BrettLee wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

You mean the video where he died right at the beginning because he face tanked a wave and couldn't pot? It's doable but it isn't necessarily a noncomplicated build. It's also heavily min maxed. It also had Phantasmal Desecrate, full awakened gems, etc.

I am not talking his DD build, merely the fact that he was able to reach 8k life with 4.8k ES when you stated that it would be difficult to get high ES with significant investment in life.

Also, he was level 96 (halfway to 97) in SSFHC which is pretty impressive, no? I don't know why you think his build was min-maxed. It was mostly basic life/res gear, no awakened or level 21 gems, in fact most gems didn't even have quality.

Again, I am not recommending his build. Just that you can reach high ES values and high life values at the same time and that there might be potential on inquis (life/es) and hiero (mana/es).

Ziz specializes in HCSSF with significantly better computers than you and I, so no. I don't find it surprising. He showed his gear for the video and it was all min/maxed. T1 or T2 in literally every single mod. There are three exceptions: Mana on gloves, His Left Ring, and his Boots' Cold Res. Most Armour has double Life mods with over 108 Life, even on gloves/helmet.

Furthermore, his tree is literally nothing but Life Nodes. He has almost no investment whatsoever in Fire damage or other offensive mods, because guess what? He's letting his former minions' Life stats carry him (which are now reduced by half due to nerfs).

If you were trying to use his build on Energy Blade, at best you'd pull off about 138k DPS with Energy Blade. At Max. You'd have almost nothing but gear boosting your damage with Energy Blade from your ES. In almost all cases, builds that show off that much Life can only be used with fixed % damage builds. They are not viable for skills you actually have to enhance.

I really do not know what is going on here. Please try and read.

1. Making it to 96.5 in SSFHC means that a build has some merit. Having a good computer also doesn't increase his life or ES - which was the only reason I brought up that build in the first place.

2. His build was not anywhere near min-maxed, I genuinely have no idea what you are looking at. I mean seriously, its mostly life/res gear that anyone could obtain within a few days of league start. You can go look at the first few days from the gauntlet on poe.ninja and see equivalent gearing in 3-4 days.

Which items do you think are expensive? Rings with 70 life and 60 res? Gloves with 100 life and 50 res? In trade league you can buy most of his equipment for like 2-10c each.

As mentioned as well, most of his gems including main skill links don't have quality and he has no awakened gems. If you want to know what a min-maxed build looks like I would be happy to show you.

3. I am not recommending his build. Can you not read? How many times do I need to state this? Its literally the first and last thing that I said in my response.

"I am not talking [about] his DD build, merely the fact that he was able to reach 8k life with 4.8k ES when you stated that it would be difficult to get high ES with significant investment in life"

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"Again, I am not recommending his build. Just that you can reach high ES values and high life values at the same time and that there might be potential on inquis (life/es) and hiero (mana/es)."

Please for the love of god, try and fucking read.

4. I will state this again. I am not recommending his build.

5. I am not recommending his build.

6. I am merely pointing out that you can in fact, achieve high ES whilst reaching high life values, and that there may be potential in energy blade builds that scale ES through means such as life as extra ES (inquisitor) or mana as extra ES (hiero). Strength stacking hiero also seems interesting.

7. I am not recommending his build.

8. I am not recommending his build. At no point have I ever suggested using his build to play energy blade.

9. I am not recommending his build.

10. I hope that you understand that with regards to energy blade and with the life as ES idea, that increasing your life would also be increasing both your EHP and your DPS. So complaining about life% nodes on the tree is a bit odd. I am also not recommending his build, as I have stated several times in my previous responses and here. Its just a potential idea that could be explored. I am sure there are other ideas that people are looking at.

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BrettLee wrote:

I really do not know what is going on here. Please try and read.

1. Making it to 96.5 in SSFHC means that a build has some merit. Having a good computer also doesn't increase his life or ES - which was the only reason I brought up that build in the first place.

2. His build was not anywhere near min-maxed, I genuinely have no idea what you are looking at. I mean seriously, its mostly life/res gear that anyone could obtain within a few days of league start. You can go look at the first few days from the gauntlet on poe.ninja and see equivalent gearing in 3-4 days.

Which items do you think are expensive? Rings with 70 life and 60 res? Gloves with 100 life and 50 res? In trade league you can buy most of his equipment for like 2-10c each.

As mentioned as well, most of his gems including main skill links don't have quality and he has no awakened gems. If you want to know what a min-maxed build looks like I would be happy to show you.

3. I am not recommending his build. Can you not read? How many times do I need to state this? Its literally the first and last thing that I said in my response.

"I am not talking [about] his DD build, merely the fact that he was able to reach 8k life with 4.8k ES when you stated that it would be difficult to get high ES with significant investment in life"

...

"Again, I am not recommending his build. Just that you can reach high ES values and high life values at the same time and that there might be potential on inquis (life/es) and hiero (mana/es)."

Please for the love of god, try and fucking read.

4. I will state this again. I am not recommending his build.

5. I am not recommending his build.

6. I am merely pointing out that you can in fact, achieve high ES whilst reaching high life values, and that there may be potential in energy blade builds that scale ES through means such as life as extra ES (inquisitor) or mana as extra ES (hiero). Strength stacking hiero also seems interesting.

7. I am not recommending his build.

8. I am not recommending his build. At no point have I ever suggested using his build to play energy blade.

9. I am not recommending his build.

10. I hope that you understand that with regards to energy blade and with the life as ES idea, that increasing your life would also be increasing both your EHP and your DPS. So complaining about life% nodes on the tree is a bit odd. I am also not recommending his build, as I have stated several times in my previous responses and here. Its just a potential idea that could be explored. I am sure there are other ideas that people are looking at.

1) I Don't know why you keep bringing up the merit of a build by someone who specializes in SSF streaming and has for years. There's two problems with that approach of reasoning, and one of them is your computer. GGG WILL kill you in SSF if you have a poor computer, which is the #1 factor resulting in HC deaths. The other is the transition of a build to playable viability by someone who is a pro at doing so, to someone who isn't. MOST of Zizaran's builds are complicated systems, where everything has to work, or you die. He can do them because he specializes in that sort of play. Most people don't. When he's taking an Ascendancy that Regens his ES at the same time as Life to mitigate his Belt's drawback, even if it's allowed, most common players won't efficiently use that combo to the point where they don't die because of it.

2) Min Max doesn't always mean 7-10L skill mods. That's a standard player's trope. In SSF his gear IS the best you can expect, and with the exception of the three things I mentioned, it literally is Min/Maxed. Zizaran literally titled the video, "MinMax DD Inquisitor." In his case what he was min/maxing was life, as he does with most builds. Just because it isn't expensive and has 1-2 mods that are a little off doesn't mean it isn't relatively minmax for a purpose.

3) You're worshipping a state of being that doesn't transfer over, when we're specifically discussing Life and ES thresholds. The conversation doesn't even need to get into Minmax to discuss that. Zizaran's gear is Min/Maxed on every single piece for Life. Period. Any build that is made is going to max out at about where he is at Life. PERIOD. And to get there, he took severe investment way from damage to do it. PERIOD. In the case of Energy Blade, you will need serious damage investment to make it viable. PERIOD. Which means; the two types of sample discussions aren't compatible.

4) You're so absorbed in the concept of his build you're missing the message; You're saying EHP resources are easy to get to that level. I'm suggesting that if you reach those levels, you literally have no room left for Damage. Period. Energy Blade by itself isn't going to pull off millions of DPS> Period. It needs Damage investment in nodes/gear. PERIOD.

A better example of why what you're trying to argue is untrue; look at Lighty/Zizaran's Scourge Arrow Ballista totem play; He's capping 7000 HP on that build with 0 ES, because he/they INVESTED IN DAMAGE. That's with ZERO ES. If he had ES in a build like that, he'd be sitting at 5k EHP if he even tried to maintain the same damage.

5) Literally NONE of the new Uniques introduced have LIFE or large amounts of ES. If you plan on a Squire or a Magebind or a Gravebind or Oppressor or one of the new Amulets, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE EHP RESOURCES for Min/Maxing.

People who on average have 5k + ES will NOT have significant amounts of Life, UNLESS THEY SACRIFICED ALL THEIR DAMAGE.

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BrettLee wrote:

1. I will state this again. I am not recommending his build.

2. I am not recommending his build.

3. I am not recommending his build.

4. I am not recommending his build.
At no point have I ever suggested using his build to play energy blade.

5. I am not recommending his build.

FOR TEH MEEEEEEME

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rekikyo wrote:

People who on average have 5k + ES will NOT have significant amounts of Life, UNLESS THEY SACRIFICED ALL THEIR DAMAGE.

Man i had to log here Just to say How wrong you are. Go to PoB and try again. I Just made a 8 k life + 16k ES build, not going to play energy blades with It, but could. Im going for righteous fire or forbidden Rite, have both planned.

And no its not Max geared ir expensive, its achievable

Energy blades is not worth at ALL.

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HoockBr wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

People who on average have 5k + ES will NOT have significant amounts of Life, UNLESS THEY SACRIFICED ALL THEIR DAMAGE.

Man i had to log here Just to say How wrong you are. Go to PoB and try again. I Just made a 8 k life + 16k ES build, not going to play energy blades with It, but could. Im going for righteous fire or forbidden Rite, have both planned.

And no its not Max geared ir expensive, its achievable

Energy blades is not worth at ALL.

Try my pathing out... Oh yes its Possible!


https://pastebin.com/HvYn8zTM

Auras... Auras... Masteries and Auras

So much reduced reservations on the tree why wouldn't take it? Look what I did with it.

Sry about that Frank. U must try harder and think out of the box

Wont show How now, maybe after 1 week on league. What i can say is that u need several unique interactions and u don't really need to invest in % ES on tree

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HoockBr wrote:

Sry about that Frank. U must try harder and think out of the box

Wont show How now, maybe after 1 week on league. What i can say is that u need several unique interactions and u don't really need to invest in % ES on tree

I think I know some of them...

If the cost run this goes insane then I don't feel it's worth it lol.

Cost in PoE = Time so, wasting time isn't really fun.

I do like how everything looks on my pathing, but I know ther isn't much damage in it, but the feeling of tanking is appeal haha so why not play with that part?

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rekikyo wrote:

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ncoffey4 wrote:

Maybe Energy Blade will be able to have support gems put with it. Even that doesn't seem possible right now because any support you would want to put with it requires a skill that does a hit.

As said, the skill's Q has Crit rate, and the skill "replaces" your weapon with an Energy Sword, so there are strong indications that Energy Sword itself does Hit.

But, because of how scarce "Spell Mods" that affect hits, aren't contingent on Mana, and there only being 2 "Lightning" Supports that are compatible, linking supports is going to be hard, and it's going to spike the ES cost through the roof.

The only real compatible supports are Added Lightning Damage, Innervate, Controlled Destruction, Elemental Focus, and Iron Will.

I don't think that is accurate. I am just going based on https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Energy_Blade
which states that it can only be supported by Empower, Enchance, and Faster Casting.

If that is wrong, and it CAN be supported by things like added lightning, that would be GROSS. It would basically give you a setup that would pump up the stats on your weapon, that you could then pump even further by a separate gem setup for the skill you use the weapon with.

The level 20 skill need 624 ES to toggle on. That means you need 3120 ES minimum. That puts the damage at 43-859 for a 1h weapon. If you could link that with Added Lightning Damage, it would add 21-402 at gem level 20. That would be just on the weapon. Then your second setup could have another Added Lightning Damage to add onto the skill you are using.

I think the wording on it negates the use of those supports though. The supports say that they support a skill that hits enemies. The Energy Blade skill doesn't actually hit the enemy, the weapon it creates does.

Iron will and battlemage do not work with it?

Hi guys,

I'm testing the skill in Standard, with a Hierophant.
For the moment, my main skill is Static Strike.
Here is my PoB : https://pastebin.com/aRbd0zqf

Of course, the build is tanky thx to MoM and a lot of ES (currently 11k).
But the damage is... bad.
Really, I don't see a way to scale the DPS. I'm struggling against bosses in t12...
So the skill seems promising, but I must be missing smth. Although, based on the discussions here, the skill might be underwhelming, I don't know.
Any help appreciated.

(I've seen the question asked : the lightning dmg is based on your ES after the buff is cast, so it's based on 50% of your ES.)