eHP of old evasion vs new evasion, and how much easier it is to hit the evade cap (w/graphs)
" Lol ok. Point still stands regardless of any snark, telling people to just avoid getting hit in order to counteract the entropy timer is laughable as a mitigation strategy. I mean c'mon. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" Unless you get hit you mean? I cant anymore in this thread. Good luck with evasion my dudes! Edit: last point. TLDR = Yes entropy is very good, until you die. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 8, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
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This is all incredibly easy to fix, at least from a mathematical standpoint.
In 3.15 you could hit 95% evasion and 75% dodge. That's effectively a 98.75% chance to completely avoid damage at capped evasion and dodge. Simply change the evasion cap from 95% to 99%. You'll always have a small chance to get hit, but if you invest heavily in evasion, you'll end up with a slight avoidance buff from 3.15's evasion/dodge combo. If you want to take it a step further, just change Wind Dancer to reduce damage by a percent of your evasion chance, i.e. you take (.5*evasion chance) % less damage if you haven't been hit recently. That way it can remain extremely strong for evasion based characters, and maybe even get a buff, and be useless for people that don't focus on evasion. |
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" no, i mean when you take 1000s of attack hits per map, and you take 1 in 20 of those hits its not entropy that means you get hit, its the fact you take 1 in 20 hits out of 1000s of hits that means you get hit. if you take entropy away from evasion you wont suddenly evade 100% of hits with 95% evasion, you would still take 5% of hits. entropy is not why you get hit. entropy is why you dont get hit 3 times in a row within the space of a second and die to a burst of attack damage because you got unlucky. entropy is why evasion is good. Last edited by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Oct 8, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
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" I know I said I was out, but this is fundamentally wrong. Please read the following, as I believe it might be helpful in your understanding of why entropy is good, up until it's really really bad (ie dead) https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ikepnr/evasion_and_the_entropy_system_chance_to_be_hit/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/11707/filter-account-type/staff/page/10#p748465 Edit also it details the point of why you cant use it to your advantage, like intentionally taking a small hit from a trash mob so you are essentially invulnerable for a more dangerous mob/boss. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 8, 2021, 12:58:34 PM
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i understand exactly how entropy works, and thats why i know its great.
you seem to think that with a 1 in 20 chance to get hit somehow you will never get hit if you dont have entropy. your quote... " without entropy you are also guaranteed to get hit because we are talking about 1000s of incoming hits and only a 1 in 20 chance to avoid them. with entropy you are guaranteed to be hit, without entropy you are also guaranteed to be hit. the only difference is with entropy you are guaranteed to not get unlucky and be hit multiple times in a row resulting in deaths to burst damage. entropy makes evasion reliable, it doesnt guarantee you get hit, 95% chance to evade cap is what guarantees you get hit and that has nothing to do with entropy. |
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" The link I provided from Mark details why the mechanics of evade are not solely based on the evasion cap numbers and the percentages they show/calculate. Point is that players are going to get hit, whether that is directly because of the initial entropy roll, or subsequent rolls, or during the "cooldown" window. Edit: Keep in mind currently there is a dodge calculation that you completely evade attack or spell damage. This is going away. I mean I feel like I said the sky is blue, and you responded with "nah it's more sky-blue" If you die due to a one-shot in an evade build, it seems like a hollow argument to be like "well it was really good up until that point" "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 8, 2021, 1:59:36 PM
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" It's worth noting that quite a few deaths that're attributed to 1-shots are actually multiple shots in very quick succession. But not so quick that the servers can't handle them. Evasion does protect against those pretty effectively, precisely because of the entropy system. If it was purely random, you could roll the die badly and have them all hit, killing you. But the entropy system means that's impossible with how evasion works in PoE. If the first shot hits, the rest won't, saving your life. And this is guaranteed. The only issue is that we don't have anything like that for spells, but that's the case even now since both dodge and block are fully random anyway. Spell Suppression now is something, albeit it works as a damage reduction mechanic (which feels much more like armor or resists) rather than an avoidance one which fits in thematically. But I suppose there's no other way to do it for spells without changing their fundamentals since accuracy is not a thing for spells anyway. Last edited by Exile009#1139 on Oct 8, 2021, 2:52:00 PM
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" I agree for the most part on one-shots, but the problem is that in an evasion build, especially moving into 3.16, base evasion is the primary source of damage mitigation (unless you have a shield which wouldn't apply to two handers like bows, and minus your resistance multipliers) It would be like randomly in your armor, ES, and/or block build you lost your primary damage mitigation for a moment, then it restored (if you even lived), and this was guaranteed happen at some point, but you didnt really know when it would be. I honestly cannot fathom how you can stay alive consistently in the endgame (even if/when they fix RT mobs), knowing the hits will land, and you will die. I mean really, is there an answer aside from hoping you dont get hit during a susceptible period, which is 100% going to happen? (Especially with dodge gone) "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" thats mostly true only for spells for attacks the truly threatening stuff usually comes in very large hits, things that 1 or 2 shot you honestly off the top of my head i can only think of the red meatball being the only non-boss spell that actually deals a large single hit and thats not even something youre supposed to tank Last edited by yamface#1022 on Oct 8, 2021, 4:09:35 PM
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