Resistance needs to be converted to resistance rating

All the %-nay-sayers seem to forget that you still end up getting resist on gear. You get it with other stats.

Just because you have a ring with X% fire resist, doesn't mean you never replace it. You get a shoe that has Y%, plus something else. So you put that on. Then you find a hat with Z% but a little less frost, so you put that on.

Did any of you actually play D2, or did you just read how terrible it was on some blog?

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Zarondd wrote:

A rating system just increases the need for gear turnover (Ie once every 2 levels instead of 5), essentially just making the game a grindfest (while this maybe the namesake of dev team, I for one dont find it fun).

The point is in fact that players would NOT grind for resists early in the game because it would be worthless later. Instead, players would focus on balancing out their gear so they have some resists until they reach the late stages of the game, where the point is basically to grind anyway.

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notevenhere wrote:

All the %-nay-sayers seem to forget that you still end up getting resist on gear. You get it with other stats.

Just because you have a ring with X% fire resist, doesn't mean you never replace it. You get a shoe that has Y%, plus something else. So you put that on. Then you find a hat with Z% but a little less frost, so you put that on.

Did any of you actually play D2, or did you just read how terrible it was on some blog?

The fact is that we just don't cycle gear like that in PoE because good lvl 14 resist rings can be enough for the whole game. A good lvl 14 resist ring could give 30,17,17 to resists. Two such rings means 47,47,17. Add an amulet and you have something like 47,47, 51. That's more than enough for the whole game on the three first playtroughs... And you never have to swap that past lvl 14.

In D2 the fix for this was reduced resists on higher difficulty, which allowed the devs to scale bonuses to resists up on higher end gear. That's basically the same. You finish the game, and suddenly you're much less powerful than you used to be. A rating system would simply be based on lvl rather than number of playtroughs, and thus would be more linear and likely easier to balance.

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BenZen wrote:

The point is in fact that players would NOT grind for resists early in the game because it would be worthless later. Instead, players would focus on balancing out their gear so they have some resists until they reach the late stages of the game, where the point is basically to grind anyway.

Thats only the case if the game is NOT balanced around cap resists, in which case people would complain that cap resists make the game too easy. The point is, whether its rating or flat % if 1 ring can almost cap 1 resist the issue about balancing around cap resists is not resolved.

Its not how often you are forced to change gear that leads to balance, but rather how difficult or easy it is to itemize to reach caps. Having to use 7.5 modifier slots (ie 4 pieces of gear) to cap eases the balancing around resists more so then capping with 2.5 (2 pieces of gear).

Unless very heavy grinding happens, forcing people to cycle their gear is an effective nerf to resists total. And if you read my longer post, you will see that I also advocate for a balancing that happens around some resist, but not a constant cap. That's until late in the game, when items cycling slows down or stops and you can ask more resists of players without forcing them into a grindfest.

The idea that resists totals per item might be too high is a completely different debate and if you feel it's an issue, then I strongly suggest you start a thread about it. I'll gladly go there and continue this debate, but it has nothing to do with % vs rating, which is the topic at hand here.

I'm still going to say that if you are forced to cycle resist items more often, it is much less likely that you will have uber gear on yourself at any moment that could cap your resists, and therefore this problem would most likely fix itself in a rating-based system.

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BenZen wrote:

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notevenhere wrote:

All the %-nay-sayers seem to forget that you still end up getting resist on gear. You get it with other stats.

Just because you have a ring with X% fire resist, doesn't mean you never replace it. You get a shoe that has Y%, plus something else. So you put that on. Then you find a hat with Z% but a little less frost, so you put that on.

Did any of you actually play D2, or did you just read how terrible it was on some blog?

The fact is that we just don't cycle gear like that in PoE because good lvl 14 resist rings can be enough for the whole game. A good lvl 14 resist ring could give 30,17,17 to resists. Two such rings means 47,47,17. Add an amulet and you have something like 47,47, 51. That's more than enough for the whole game on the three first playtroughs... And you never have to swap that past lvl 14.

Why would I keep a 35% Fire Resist ring when I could instead get a 35% Fire Resist ring that ALSO HAS ... other stats?

You aren't listening. You aren't going to get a ring at level 14 that you'll NEVER replace. If you have, then the problem isn't the resists, it's the fact that there's some low level modifier that isn't beaten by a higher one.

You shouldn't be using a plain resist ring forever. You should be upgrading it as you go along so that you get additional interesting mods.

Could you max one resist at leve l4 and not ever upgrade it? I guess. But then you'd be gimping yourself by not replacing it when a better one comes along. Just because you keep one mod the way you like doesn't mean the additional mods on the ring won't beat what you have.

I would like to tune into this discussion with two things.

1. I propose a 3rd system: Fixed damage reduction. If I find a ring that says +30 fire resistance it actually reduces fire damage by 30. So if I have a total of 200 fire resistance it reduces each fire attack by 200 damage. Of course you can as now leave that attacks always do at least 1/4 of its damage (75% max resists like now).

This lets GGG easily balance important bosses that use elemental attacks by giving them a much bigger elemental damage output. This output can then do the same thing to character that high damage does to current armor.

This way also makes it easy to understand for players because they know exactly what they get with this reduction.

2. About OP claiming you can easily get max resists.
a) Not everyone has endurance charges
b) Not everyone has resistance mods on flasks (also you need to have more then one to constantly have it going during fights)
c) You need to constantly upgrade your equipment so new items will have new mods and not all will have as good elemental resists
d) Chaos damage is not resistable.

Actually you can make it resistance rating and resistance at once. Resistance rating will be hidden stat (True Resistance), while Resistance will be calculated from (Resistance Rating/Z)*100% to show % value.

Z -> Resistance Divider Modifier, it would make quite good idea since some skills would raise this value and it would be bigger when fighting vs monsters at bigger difficulty or of bigger lvl

Of course there would be need for seperate PvP resistance, but that's quite easy since Z_x is variable, right ?

d) Chaos damage is not resistable. -> Chaos Inoculation

Fixed damage reduction could also work, and I feel that it'd be pretty easy to balance and understand.

Fixed damage reduction worked really well in Mount and Blade, but hp and damage did not wildly scale like it does here, which would be a problem with fixed numbers.

I had thought of including a fixed reduction proposal, but in the end it would be too much work compared to set flat% when hp starts at 50 and can reach as low as 500 or as high as 10000, same with damage.

I am fine with the way it is done now but why not just have a resistance penalty on higher difficulties? That was how it worked in Diablo 2. Once you hit higher ones, you had like a cumulative -25% to resistances so you had to really work on getting your gear up to speed or you'd get eaten alive on higher difficulties by elemental damage.