The Multi-box Thread: How it ruins the game.

Great thread.

I have my own slight doubts about all this, to be sure. Multibox chaos farming I don't quite understand, and seems to be almost ridiculous hard since the recent patch (anyone who can solo a players 6 Merciless Vaal has pretty much earned it at that point); however, I partied with a multiboxer (and 4 of his 5 alts) earlier today and made like 2 alts a minute, which is pretty damn nuts, especially considering that if I wasn't there, he wouldn't have had to split the loot two ways. And it was utterly mindless - just rush normal ancient pyramid over and over.

But I digress. My main issue with these assertion is that, well, the orbs aren't just currency. There's a natural anti-inflation mechanism built into the game in that the orbs have an inherent value. Let's imagine it gets to the point where you do need, say, 50 chaos to bid on a decent end-game value. What are the odds that you couldn't get something similarly good for half that just by using those chaos orbs you would sell? Not to say this isn't a problem - as someone sitting with barely an exalt worth of currency in his stash, such inflation really hurts... But still, if you're worried about continued inflation, there is an end in sight. In the meanwhile, I'm going to just use Sirlin as a reference guide and get ISBoxer set up and buy a set of MF gear.


Also, I've noticed something else: a lot of other items are actually losing value. The new Uniques are a special case, to be sure, but Lioneye's has dropped something like 10ex average in the last week or so. Is that normal? Midnight Bargain has gone from 8+ to 4-6ex. I think there's a more overarching problem here than multiboxers - the economy in this game is extremely prone to, well, mood swings - not the least because the most valuable currency have no solid foundation for their exchange rates beyond "It just is that way". I dunno, I'm no expert, but I do think this shouldn't be ignored when talking about issues like this.

Excellent post and well done for all that effort. I've already quit and so has many of my friends because of the unattainable end game gear and uniques. I might comeback and actually spend money on this game if this cheat is fixed.

They might as well remake as this game with 4 screens since everyone is multicheating these days.

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DeathToExploiters wrote:

Excellent post and well done for all that effort. I've already quit and so has many of my friends because of the unattainable end game gear and uniques. I might comeback and actually spend money on this game if this cheat is fixed.

They might as well remake as this game with 4 screens since everyone is multicheating these days.

Okay, while I understand that this has an effect on people, this I will never get. You're quitting because... Um... You can't get BiS gear? Or what? Newsflash: very few people get to perfectly minmax their gear. Deal with it. This has nothing to do with multiboxers - even without inflated prices, Lioneye's/Midnight Bargain/Taryn's/Shavronne's/Kaom's would still be ridiculously rare and in very high demand - and everything to do with just how the RNG is structured in this game. Deal with it.

4Expectations of low prices because 'that's the way it was in CB'?... like anyone cared about their shit when they knew a wipe was coming.

Doesn't seem to be much appreciation of the intrinsic value orbs posses, and what profound effects that has on the final inflated rates. Yes, there is inflation. The economy is inflating. Currency is entering it. This will continue to happen until the intrinsic value of orbs averages to an items price due to its rarity. The rate would be slower without anyone multiboxing. The end result will be the same regardless. Eventually, the item market (of default, at least) will be saturated to the point that you will have to sell at less than the average crafting value to move them.

If you don't like the currency rates items are headed towards, you're really asking for GGG to either increase currency drop rates, or make the excellent stuff roll more often. It's the same difference.

I see those stacks of chaos, and I think, someone is going to get paid close to an items value in chaos by that guy. The guy that gets paid, will in turn, pay someone else close to the true value of an item. Or try to roll a sweet rare, get dick, learn that wealth is built through trade.

Because of the recipe, there's a stigma to chaos. Doesn't change the fact they're worth about 1 alch and 1 scouring. Intrinsic value was a great idea on GGGs part. We're not dealing with some mmo economy where currency and items are separate functions. Every equipable item is craftable, and therefore has an average crafting value.

I do wonder what the future of exalteds and divines hold. They're not really tethered to the rest of the economy in the same way most everything else is. Closer to mirrors. The fellow hoarding exalteds I think will do well for himself. Multiboxing doesn't really matter. They're fucking rare, regardless. A sub .0001% chance is = :( IIQ is kinda irrelevant.

Anyway, it's a well thought out post, but I think there's a lot that isn't being considered that can be chalked up to dissatisfaction at what the basic design of the game will lead to.

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yastru wrote:

what "announced currency wipe" are you insane ?!

i would never multibox but i have no burning desire to part from my hard earned orbs just because someone doesnt like how someone else is playing the game. d

if they wanted to make it illegal, they would. then use admin tools to monitor players and rely on "reports" and as punishment wipe players inventory & stash.

why do i need to suffer because of them ?

That's just it, though.

You won't be suffering.




Use your currency. Buy items, or craft new ones. In the end, you'll still "have your hard-earned currency". It will just have a different form. And GCP's can be put on gems for permanent gratification!

But in the meantime, those with illegitimate amounts of currency will most likely have trouble dumping all of their orbs on things. They'll be nigh forced into putting it in circulation, buying people's items, crafting other pieces of gear... losing wealth to RNG in the process...


RNG is this game's biggest money sink. But when illegitimate players can use their orbs to make outrageous prices on premade items rather than lose even more outrageous amounts of currency trying to craft it... They come up even more ahead of the crowd that way. So, I feel that forcing them to succumb to the RNG can only be a good thing, while hardly even effecting legit players in the meantime (and ultimately helping them out in the bigger picture). And then once the economy normalizes, we can all get on with our lives.

Best thread ever. Very well thought out OP!

I hope GGG is paying attention.

"

Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Great thread.

I have my own slight doubts about all this, to be sure. Multibox chaos farming I don't quite understand, and seems to be almost ridiculous hard since the recent patch (anyone who can solo a players 6 Merciless Vaal has pretty much earned it at that point); however, I partied with a multiboxer (and 4 of his 5 alts) earlier today and made like 2 alts a minute, which is pretty damn nuts, especially considering that if I wasn't there, he wouldn't have had to split the loot two ways. And it was utterly mindless - just rush normal ancient pyramid over and over.

But I digress. My main issue with these assertion is that, well, the orbs aren't just currency. There's a natural anti-inflation mechanism built into the game in that the orbs have an inherent value. Let's imagine it gets to the point where you do need, say, 50 chaos to bid on a decent end-game value. What are the odds that you couldn't get something similarly good for half that just by using those chaos orbs you would sell? Not to say this isn't a problem - as someone sitting with barely an exalt worth of currency in his stash, such inflation really hurts... But still, if you're worried about continued inflation, there is an end in sight. In the meanwhile, I'm going to just use Sirlin as a reference guide and get ISBoxer set up and buy a set of MF gear.


Also, I've noticed something else: a lot of other items are actually losing value. The new Uniques are a special case, to be sure, but Lioneye's has dropped something like 10ex average in the last week or so. Is that normal? Midnight Bargain has gone from 8+ to 4-6ex. I think there's a more overarching problem here than multiboxers - the economy in this game is extremely prone to, well, mood swings - not the least because the most valuable currency have no solid foundation for their exchange rates beyond "It just is that way". I dunno, I'm no expert, but I do think this shouldn't be ignored when talking about issues like this.

I like your argument, and I've seen it before. But let me present what I beleive to be a heavier-weighing counter-argument.


(This also relates to my above post.)


While RNG is inherently this game's biggest currency sink, the overflow of orbs that multi's own offsets that engine. Quick note that your example of 50 Chaos is actually off, and more realistically over 100 Chaos (even at 15 Chaos per Exalt and items going for a 10 Exalt average); but that only provides more strength to your point anyway. If an item costs 8-10 Exalts, which is an ungodly amount of Chaos... Yes, you could very well just have USED that amount of orbs crafting your own thing.

But speaking as a person who has many a time spent over 50 Fuses failing to get a 4Link on ilvl 70+ boots/gloves, and well over 100 Jeweller's on similar chests before ever getting anything higher than 3 sockets... I'm not about to go try my luck by rolling through hundreds of Chaos orbs.

Certainty will always outweigh chance. I'd even say well off to the point of infinity. People will always pay more than what they could consume in crafting the same thing, currently I'd say the amount is roughly at a 75% figure. This is to say, if we assume the buyer is assuming they would have the lower 50-80%% of the luck spectrum when crafting, they will pay upwards 75% more of what would be blown in crafting as a straight-up offer on a premade piece. And it is my belief that this figure will continue to grow, going well beyond 100% and most likely not stopping, as people grow to hate RNG more and more and more.



Let's say you have 1,000 Chaos. Would you rather spend 500 to get an item you need, or go through 300 in crafting, get nothing but crap, and be looking at the choice to either keep trying your luck all the way to the end, or give up now that you're 300 down?

NOBODY likes RNG, and the value of negating it is literally priceless - and as such, it will only continue to rise.

Or, and just a wild thought, using currency on your own items is such a bullshit rng fest that people horde it and use it in trade. Supply of technically consumable currency shoots up because it's not particularly rewarding to use.

Good thread. It really seems people don't understand how this is ruining the economy. I hope GGG takes a more aggressive stance towards multiboxing.

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TheHorrorFromSpace wrote:

Good thread. It really seems people don't understand how this is ruining the economy. I hope GGG takes a more aggressive stance towards multiboxing.