[Discussion] Harvest's Economy - Why Exalts Are Almost 200c

Drops got nuked. Stop focusing on the chaos:exalt exchange rate. If it were that simple.. why is the fusing:exalt rate also way off?

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cpurdy777 wrote:

Whether or not you judge it as trivial, bots do take a good while to come back online after server downtime.

That says nothing about why, or prove any correlation to the theory in the OP that stability noticeably effects bot productivity. There are certainly many reasons why a bot might take slightly longer to get back into the game after an update, like perhaps the fact most of them are running through bad internet in Asia on cheap computers in a bot farm and the process just takes them a bit of extra time to update (these aren't issues unique to bots though). What are we talking about here though, an hour extra to get back in or 24 hours? Unless it takes them most of a day to reload after an update it's not going to have a noticeable effect on their productivity.

How often does the server go fully down and require an update to get back in each league? Even during unstable leagues the updates are mostly restartless, and crashing is known not to affect them at all. One of the videos somebody linked in this thread even goes over this, if it's the video I think it is (Empyrian/Hobbit trapping bots, instead of crashing them because they tell you they will instantly log back in).

Bots may be able to farm more efficiently, as its a computer playing instead of a human being, however, they do not "create" currency. They still have to sell items for chaos, people still have to find Exalts/Chaos and sell them to the botters. People will buy their items, because they need or want them to level/farm with.

To "actually" render the botters useless, you have to stop people from purchasing their items, or participating in RMT and buying the currency straight from their website or whatever medium they use. Of course the league is swarmed with bots, its how they make their money, through RMT, from people unwilling to farm their own.

Standard is 192c : 1ex

Harvest is 155c : 1ex

So, your argument that "its because all the botters" doesnt track. They may be worth more a little sooner, but there are too many economical factors involved in that to know exactly why, and which of them cause it. It is what it is. I have had 5 exalts drop, which is an average of a little less than 1ex a day. I have however, traded for many more by finding and selling items.

I havent really seen an issue with it, it has not affected me really.

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Anakarr wrote:

Bots may be able to farm more efficiently, as its a computer playing instead of a human being, however, they do not "create" currency. They still have to sell items for chaos, people still have to find Exalts/Chaos and sell them to the botters. People will buy their items, because they need or want them to level/farm with.

To "actually" render the botters useless, you have to stop people from purchasing their items, or participating in RMT and buying the currency straight from their website or whatever medium they use. Of course the league is swarmed with bots, its how they make their money, through RMT, from people unwilling to farm their own.

Standard is 192c : 1ex

Harvest is 155c : 1ex

So, your argument that "its because all the botters" doesnt track. They may be worth more a little sooner, but there are too many economical factors involved in that to know exactly why, and which of them cause it. It is what it is. I have had 5 exalts drop, which is an average of a little less than 1ex a day. I have however, traded for many more by finding and selling items.

I havent really seen an issue with it, it has not affected me really.

bots do not create currency? never heard of the chaos recipe? that's what they do - create two chaos out of nothing every vendor recipe. they don't sell random rares to players especially since they farm relatively low level areas.

This thread is proof that 75% of the spam in the boards is done by botters protecting their trade

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Anakarr wrote:

Bots may be able to farm more efficiently, as its a computer playing instead of a human being, however, they do not "create" currency. They still have to sell items for chaos, people still have to find Exalts/Chaos and sell them to the botters. People will buy their items, because they need or want them to level/farm with.

To "actually" render the botters useless, you have to stop people from purchasing their items, or participating in RMT and buying the currency straight from their website or whatever medium they use. Of course the league is swarmed with bots, its how they make their money, through RMT, from people unwilling to farm their own.

Standard is 192c : 1ex

Harvest is 155c : 1ex

So, your argument that "its because all the botters" doesnt track. They may be worth more a little sooner, but there are too many economical factors involved in that to know exactly why, and which of them cause it. It is what it is. I have had 5 exalts drop, which is an average of a little less than 1ex a day. I have however, traded for many more by finding and selling items.

I havent really seen an issue with it, it has not affected me really.

The vast, vast, vast majority of chaos on the market comes from bots doing chaos recipe farming blood aqueduct or harbour bridge with rarity gear. It's fully automatable from a bot writing perspective, nothing there is so threatening as to need any gear, so they can easily run like 200 of those in a small botfarm and rake in like 50 chaos per hour per bot that way.

They don't focus on farming efficiently, just farming in a way that is fully and 100% automated.

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Exile009 wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

because that's what people decide it is worth?

Superficial. Watch the video. He shows the first week prices in other leagues - it's never this high this early. And the Harvest system actually reduces their utility, so there's no known reason why this price spike should've occured.

? reducing their utility means they are worth less, C should be worthless this league their sole purpose is for transactions between players and zana I guess

That point aside there is definitely an issue on SC in comparison to previous leagues, I actually think it might be simple oversupply from said Bots. On HC were sat at 60:1 lmao tbh i'd prefer the SC ratio

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ZaeN wrote:

This thread is proof that 75% of the spam in the boards is done by botters protecting their trade

It might be a good idea to look up confirmation bias, and take a moment to let it sink in.

Way less currency. I don't know what the drop rate for exalts is now but it got reduced to heck

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

because that's what people decide it is worth?

Superficial. Watch the video. He shows the first week prices in other leagues - it's never this high this early. And the Harvest system actually reduces their utility, so there's no known reason why this price spike should've occured.

? reducing their utility means they are worth less, C should be worthless this league their sole purpose is for transactions between players and zana I guess

That point aside there is definitely an issue on SC in comparison to previous leagues, I actually think it might be simple oversupply from said Bots. On HC were sat at 60:1 lmao tbh i'd prefer the SC ratio

Thats exactly what it is. Oversupply from bots. Its not some weak-ass reroll mechanic that you only get to use like 10 times every 6 maps. Thats if you are even using it and not storing the juice.

This is a really bad drop-rate league, coupled with typical bot farming madness. People who go, "Yea but they werent 200c in another league!" No, they were 150c, like thats somehow better and should be the norm, too. Those leagues had the same issues, but they had enough loot showers to keep the prices in the 140s instead of 200s. Its not like 140c is something it should be either, look at your HC example of 60. Not many bots there to run those prices up.

This is more what it looks like when you have a bad drop late league, coupled with just how bot infested this game has become. You get 200c:1. Its not some weak mechanic making chaos useless, its oversupply. I mean, if 10c worth of rerolls every 6 maps is somehow killing the league, then why dont leagues that drop more chaos per map, kill the league? I mean you could easily double or triple that chaos spam rate in Delirium if you just used them to spam like this current mechanic. Hell, you would get 10c in a single map, much less waiting 6 to use it.

This league is a prime example of just how infested this game has become with bots. Once you hurt the supply, like the exalt supply now because of how bad the drop-rates are, you get a clear example of just how many chaos these bots pump into the game, and how big an issue bots/RMT is. Its masked some by better drop-rate leagues, only because the 140-150c you are used to doesnt sting nearly as bad. Even then, 150c+ is nothing that should be the norm. Just look what happens when a bot ban wave hits; exalts can drop 40-50c in a single day, if not more, from a single ban wave. Then, those bots farm back up, and start pushing the price again.