A Community Almost Completely Devoid of Sympathy and Empathy

Get over it and Git Gud n00b!

To much Fanboys in Poe :/

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

There isn't anything preventing you from crafting an item or adding a crafted bonus (that you unlocked) and putting the item for sale. The potential for abuse comes when you offer to pay someone to craft something you haven't unlocked.

I don't pay people to craft for me because anything I'd be willing to pay to have something crafted onto is too valuable for me to trust to a stranger.

I brought up SWTOR to point out how the economy dictates trade. Most of the stuff worth buying in SWTOR in the AH come out of lootboxes other people paid real money for and are reselling. Gearing is almost exclusively through teamwork. You also need to be subscribed (last I checked) since they discontinued the passes.

What does that mean?

You can't just create another account to hide screwing over others. The players able to complete the harder content are a tiny fraction of the playerbase, so it works against you to try and cheat them in the long run.

Poe is pure Free to play and single player focused. One can easily mask their duplicitous behavior through an additional account and still reap the rewards, no worries of items that bind on pickup or to account. Since there's no progression requiring teamwork, there's little to no natural incentive to encourage honesty.

That is why it isn't some "odd argument".

It's an odd argument simply because we are talking about GGG's implementation not meeting up with their stated visions, both as it relates to party play and trade. SWTOR is not relevant because it's an entirely different gameplay system and entirely different style of economy.

As to your crafting comment, the need to trade for crafts is also baked into the balance around them, since with the betrayal rework 90% of decent crafts are locked behind unveiling items, which is entirely RNG. You can go whole leagues without ever finding Elreon or Vagan and getting their respective mods on weapons or jewelry in Elreon's case, let alone it's also RNG what type of item they drop or even if they drop one.

Lastly, in SWTOR you can create multiple accounts, either through their family plan option or just buying multiple copies of expansions. The base game is Free to Play there, but the expansions cost money.

PS @Miasmia you telling anyone to Git Gud is hilarious when you only have 24 challenges in the easiest league to get 36 in the history of PoE.

Edited for spelling.

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jtggm1985 wrote:

You can go whole leagues without ever finding Elreon or Vagan and getting their respective mods on weapons or jewelry in Elreon's case, let alone it's also RNG what type of item they drop or even if they drop one.

No you can't. You will get all their mods if you play the encounters. If you don't play the game you have no reason to complain.

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likeblood30 wrote:

To much Fanboys in Poe :/

not fair to call fanbois the word I would use for people like that is obnoxious.. whenever it's here, reddit or twitch chat (last one you can notice the typical poe fan by the way he bashes the game, mostly activision blizzard ones)

how to trigger an obnoxious poe zealot? easy

play some game that's not poe, extra points if you play something from activision-blizzard it drives them so mad.

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jtggm1985 wrote:

It's an odd argument simply because we are talking about GGG's implementation not meeting up with their stated visions, both as it relates to party play and trade. SWTOR is not relevant because it's an entirely different gameplay system and entirely different style of economy.

As to your crafting comment, the need to trade for crafts is also baked into the balance around them, since with the betrayal rework 90% of decent crafts are locked behind unveiling items, which is entirely RNG. You can go whole leagues without ever finding Elreon or Vagan and getting their respective mods on weapons or jewelry in Elreon's case, let alone it's also RNG what type of item they drop or even if they drop one.

Lastly, in SWTOR you can create multiple accounts, either through their family plan option or just buying multiple copies of expansions. The base game is Free to Play there, but the expansions cost money.

PS @Miasmia you telling anyone to Git Gud is hilarious when you only have 24 challenges in the easiest league to get 36 in the history of PoE.

Edited for spelling.

I think you're misinterpreting that "vision". I played D2 extensively, from solo play, to party play and even pvp. Poe took a LOT of the grievances that arose out of D2 and addressed plenty - Additional storage, expansion of viable end game farming areas, even "scam" protection are just a few.

While there is never an end to newer player complaining about "scams", they no longer have to worry about items being suddenly switched with no notification and are required to mouse over (meant to enforce verification) before accepting a trade.

I'm well aware of the RNG/Time factor in unlocking crafting options. I started in abyss so first it was unlocking masters and leveling them up - then it was betrayal and having a lot more to unlock. I think Betrayal was my first 36+ so I know what you're referring to firsthand. I was also active for several leagues after, thus familiar with having to unlock it again and them making it an even more painful process.

Swtor was just used as an example to help explain how different games have to address economic issues depending on their dynamic.

I mean, pointing out how gearing is heavily restricted through party play, group play, weekly lockouts (probably didn't mention) and a paywall was meant to express just how dramatically different AH economies evolved.

You can find a mirror solo, or in a party, it doesn't matter whether or not you spent any money for tabs or whatever. A mirror is one of the most valuable natural drops in game but is restricted by rng only (and generally countless hours of play time, but even earlier last week I was reading about some new player vendoring a mirror having no idea of its value).

In a game like Swtor, progression is gated heavily by rng despite guaranteed drops. 8 people/16 people vs 5/10 pieces of gear. Then again, you can pay a guild to run you through - when I left there was literally only two guilds on the server capable of running through the harder content that actually provided such a service. I ended up using one such guild just to get a 224 helmet (best in slot at the time) because that one piece was only available in two Operations. So, not only was I up against weekly operation lockouts, but 7 other people wanting it each time. Oh, and because it was harder content, you couldn't just throw some random folks together - everyone had to be very proficient.

My own guild had players capable, but getting them all together on the same schedule just for an attempt... no bueno. The time they managed to all be available was typically dedicated to their specific teams pushing the hardest content.

Last time I was there, they finally added additional pathways to gearing up. While it was no longer necessary to rely on specific Operations completed at harder difficulties to unlock a particular piece - it was replaced with a lengthy grind. At least it eliminated relying on successful completion of group content. You still had to group with others to earn the necessary currency but you had a variety of options to choose from whether it be pvp or pve.

See, in PoE, you have completely different restrictions. Rng being the obvious, and ability to earn currency being the primary. Yet, when you boil it down, in it's most basic form its simply a time sink. However, in PoE, people can try to circumvent some of that by cheating others.

In Swtor, while there is a ton you can trade, gear is restricted with bind on equip or bind to account. It can't be "stolen" from you but you can't trade it off once you've used it either. Even before it binds, you can only trade the tokens amongst players that were there with you.

In Poe, you can use something and sell it when you no longer need it, like a tabula.

In Swtor, you can make multiple accounts - but there's no point as far as deception's concerned. Virtually anything gear related is restricted by binding, and just about everything else is a credits transactions, primarily through AH or npc vendors. The only time direct trade is a thing is when giving stuff away or avoiding the ah fees.

In PoE, there's nothing to stop you from creating an alternate account and conducting your dubious activities there to shield your main account. It's the cost of FTP in this genre. Stuff doesn't bind so it can be freely moved across accounts.

On-line games have grown heavily reliant on microtransactions. Despite SWTOR being subscription based initially - it proved unsustainable. But because so much is actively locked behind the paywall, even your money is inaccessible. As much as I hated them, that game would have probably been shut down if not for the gambling lootboxes. Still, that game isn't really worth playing unsubbed because of all the restrictions - but the positive to that is the only significant botting is RMT advertising or afk spam.

While I'm not nearly as enthusiastic over PoE as I used to be, I definitely appreciate not having to pay a subscription fee to access items I already found and stored.