Delve Costing Changes

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auberon88 wrote:

Sulphite can cause allergy-like reactions, most commonly asthma symptoms, sometimes allergic rhinitis, occasionally urticaria (hives) and very rarely, anaphylaxis (severe allergic reactions). Wheezing (and occasional whinging and whining) is the most common reaction.

Ask your doctor if Sulphite is right for you.


HAHAHAH .... WELL PLAYED Auberon88

How about halving (or more) the cost to go sideways, I see stuff to the side and think that looks interesting. oh will take me 20 maps worth of sulphide to get there, nope I'll just keep going down. The cost of sulphide takes away to capacity to explore and have fun

18K?

wow you have to farm quarry very often now

at first I liked Delve so much, but then it forced me to spend more and more time to not being in in Delve, so I am giving it up.
I am at depth 200 and really enjoyed exploring... please let us delve without having to be forced to spend hours of hours in maps...

So, after seeing the quick response from GGG about the first patch, and yet another Sulphite re-balance, I had quite a lot of faith in GGG to understand the problem and re-balance accordingly.

After playing for some time tonight, I don't agree with the changes. I had other games I put aside to play Delve and I really enjoyed it, right up until the Sulphite changes. I never had to farm Quarry, I made it to Red Maps, and I had a pretty good balance between progressing on the atlas and exploring league content. Even with my dumb and probably weak build, which I knew for a fact wouldn't destroy any of the top tier content. But I was okay with that; and I've always been okay with that in every league I've played.

However, this league currently feels like Standard league. Previously, there was never any direct interaction with league content in maps, which was already an issue, but one which I felt was somewhat balanced by how often I could enter a Delve. That's gone now.

I'm disappointed because the changes make me feel cheated of the time I played before the changes.

I'm disappointed because the league content now feels gated even harder behind content that is not directly related to the league.

But maybe I am mostly disappointed because this recent manifesto makes me feel like I am not the target audience of this game, which... might really be true. That kind of hurts the most.

I know, I know. "GIT GUD," "It's called GRINDING Gear Games," "Red map sustain is EZ n00b" and all that.

But really, why would I want to get good at a game that feels like it doesn't want me as a player?

Third time's the charm, right? Or, maybe the folks who are pointing out that balancing exclusively to the .01% isn't a positive thing have a point. Just keep messing with the numbers, yeah? Like, maybe the number of hours I'm considering spending on this whack league.

Just get rid of the sulphite once and for all and delve will be good. Or give us an "EZ Noob Whatever you wanna call it" league where we can enjoy the game content without having to play the game like it's a real life job.

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Tirry1 wrote:

So, after seeing the quick response from GGG about the first patch, and yet another Sulphite re-balance, I had quite a lot of faith in GGG to understand the problem and re-balance accordingly.

After playing for some time tonight, I don't agree with the changes. I had other games I put aside to play Delve and I really enjoyed it, right up until the Sulphite changes. I never had to farm Quarry, I made it to Red Maps, and I had a pretty good balance between progressing on the atlas and exploring league content. Even with my dumb and probably weak build, which I knew for a fact wouldn't destroy any of the top tier content. But I was okay with that; and I've always been okay with that in every league I've played.

However, this league currently feels like Standard league. Previously, there was never any direct interaction with league content in maps, which was already an issue, but one which I felt was somewhat balanced by how often I could enter a Delve. That's gone now.

I'm disappointed because the changes make me feel cheated of the time I played before the changes.

I'm disappointed because the league content now feels gated even harder behind content that is not directly related to the league.

But maybe I am mostly disappointed because this recent manifesto makes me feel like I am not the target audience of this game, which... might really be true. That kind of hurts the most.

I know, I know. "GIT GUD," "It's called GRINDING Gear Games," "Red map sustain is EZ n00b" and all that.

But really, why would I want to get good at a game that feels like it doesn't want me as a player?

I'm not quite sure how you arrive at your conclusion, tbh. There is no set goal in PoE that universally applies. Everyone makes their own goals and sets their own meta. Being in red maps, as you are, you are at sufficient depth to find all bosses in delves, so pretty much endgame for this league.

So how are you not the target audience?

Furthermore, people are really confused about "gating". Literally every single league over the past years was deeply rooted in the mapping system. Abysses? You want high red maps. Incursions? Again, high red maps. Bestiary? Let's...not talk about that, but yes, high red maps.

Same meta criteria, same "gating".

And on a somewhat related note, but not to the quoted post:
@ "let us just delve instead of mapping"
They can do that. But then you have to significantly (!) reduce the rewards, if not remove them completely, if they become "free". The alternative is to remove the trading system and force SSF.

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Miffy23 wrote:

But then you have to significantly (!) reduce the rewards, if not remove them completely, if they become "free". The alternative is to remove the trading system and force SSF.

Why trading is even a thing? It is absolutely cancerous for the game. It effectively gates crafting behind 24/7 currecny flipping and forces players who just want to have fun slicing hordes of mobs (ARPG, duh!) to do boring crap.

In fact, they absolutely can leave rewards and it won't break anything. Because there is absolutely zero reason to build game around economy and not vice versa. I mean, what if they would just leave it as is? Filthy casual plebs who play only 6 hours per day would use their chaos for crafting instead of stashing it? Oh horror.

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Oblitus wrote:

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Miffy23 wrote:

But then you have to significantly (!) reduce the rewards, if not remove them completely, if they become "free". The alternative is to remove the trading system and force SSF.

Why trading is even a thing? It is absolutely cancerous for the game. It effectively gates crafting behind 24/7 currecny flipping and forces players who just want to have fun slicing hordes of mobs (ARPG, duh!) to do boring crap.

In fact, they absolutely can leave rewards and it won't break anything. Because there is absolutely zero reason to build game around economy and not vice versa. I mean, what if they would just leave it as is? Filthy casual plebs who play only 6 hours per day would use their chaos for crafting instead of stashing it? Oh horror.

It's actually significantly more complicated than that.
You have two choices for progression in an ARPG: power creep or gear creep. D3 chose to go for power creep - you literally advance simply through playtime via paragon points, as drops will simply be handed to you. RNG be damned, you will eventually be geared and able to progress.

PoE is a more traditional gear creep game, in that you can trade, craft and find other ways to progress your build besides sheer time. This is based on content that awards good gear not being too easily available or completable, making more powerful gear rarer and more valuable, hence fueling the economy. It's more complicated than that, but those are the basics.

You *can* play PoE SSF, but i suspect you would enjoy it even less, because everything will take much, much longer and your build needs to be that much better with worse gear.

Contrary to what you may believe, you don't need to play PoE 10 hours a day to "succeed". First you should ask yourself what you want to do in the league anyway. Then you should consider what you enjoy.

If all you are looking at are the ladder leaders hardcore pushing and streaming and comparing yourself to them....you're kinda doing it wrong.

There is plenty of room to enjoy PoE at your own pace, lots of people do it.

I'll tell you though what happens if content like delves have no opportunity cost or timesink involved, yet retain their current rewards: the market crashes, inflation soars, everyone obtains their best gear much, much faster and is done with the league in days.

In order for something to be exciting (drops, milestones like levels, boss kills), it has to be hard to obtain. Asking for easier access is akin to shooting yourself in the foot as a player. You would enjoy content less and for a shorter duration.