Delve Costing Changes

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JoeShmo wrote:

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Joker wrote:

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JoeShmo wrote:

The longest delves are not the most profitable, because you can't vendor or carry back with you all of the loot that drops from larger delves. You're output, outside of getting high value currency drops ( if it happens ) will always be exactly the same no matter which delve you choose ( short, medium, long, stupidly long ) because your inventory space is finite ..and you can't vendor or stash items at the crawler.

This is like taking away stash access in the lab ...and then saying that the higher difficulties are more profitable ...despite not being able to carry the extra loot from larger and larger labs because you have no access to the stash. Seeing items drop on the ground is not wealth, being able to actually use those items to make money is wealth.

You can't do that if you have to leave it all on the ground.

You can access the stash and sell items infinitely, unless you get a disconnect or misclick, just switch back and forth between the mine entrance and the current delve. (Button on the top left in the Subterranean chart.)

It has been like this since the beginning.

I can see that's finally available now, but that was only a recent fix because it never worked beforehand. That always spawned a brand new instance of that mine area, and the button itself ( top left ) is conflicting because it was always synonymous with returning to the camp ..since that's the only way you were getting back after a delve, using that button.

There was no mention in the patch notes that it now works to send you to your last node visited too ( without a reset ). They only mentioned that you can now click to go to the node you're currently at ( which prevented you from retrying nodes you had failed, without having to start a new delve, or other instance, somewhere else and then go back ) ..which again ...never stated it would preserve the mine state as it would always reset it prior.

I'm glad there's a way now, and thanks for pointing it out, but it was never like that "since the beginning."

I've been looting like this since the first day of the league and haven't played 3.4.3 yet. I probably would have stopped playing pretty much immediately if it hadn't worked like that because I have a problem with hoarding and looting way too much. I'm amazed you were able to deal with it.

You probably didn't know that the button always worked both ways, which is understandable because it's not exactly obvious.

Anyway, glad I could be of help. Good luck!

There is actually no reason to mix slow pace content with power creep content - its just nonsense and it doesnt matter "how" you balance the sulphite problem. The longer you think about it, the more sulphite becomes removed or equal to 0 cost because you can always abuse it and lets be honest - how is that fun to watch a team which just opens maps and somebody click on a mine... in my point of view it looks silly and its just dumb game design. Or the other way around sulphite becomes more tedious and game destroying.
Both content has to be core of the game and has to be seperated - both should have their pros and cons.
I mean you can also mix t3 burial farming + laby farming + elder/shaper mapping + t16 elder farming + guardians on one char to do ONE uber elder... come on... the whole idea is just super awful.

How ever sulphite should stay in maps to autocomplete delve points so you can delve at a later point there where you are mapping or get rid of bad rng grid spawns. The same for map drops in delves but it has be lowered significantly. Maybe add the atlas bonus to the delves as well but with a different function!?

I have a suggestion.

Make the main sulphite gains on maps “equal” starting from red tier maps. This means that from t11 to t16, we get the same sulphite gains per mine on maps. Thus, the only difference would be is that there would be a larger bonus sulphite scaling when doing higher maps.

For example:
30k max sulphite capacity
Red tier standard sulphite gain: 3k (regardless of quant)
T11 bonus: 25%
T12 bonus: 40%
T13 bonus: 55%
T14 bonus: 70%
T15 bonus: 85%
T16 bonus: 100%

Meaning, I could get 6k sulphite AT LEAST on a T16 map with only one mine. 3 mines would be 18k sulphite.
This eases the strain on players to grind maps so hard and actually makes mapping more fun and less stressful (like it’s a chore to farm sulphites).

Make the delve rewards actually more rewarding! Incursion pulled it off good because players were thrilled with the high risk high rewards mechanics of the temple rooms, and this “thrill” seems to be lacking in delve. Double corruption, sacrifice chamber, vault room are some examples.

Lessen the sulphite cost. Make it justifiable and proportinal! Jesus christ, I needed to grind 5 or 6 t11 maps just to delve one short length node with a depth of 350 something. OR. Just completely remove sulphite cost and just set a limit on delving per day like 30-50 delves regardless of its length. But following this logic, you need to make mapping more fun and more rewarding. Because if this happens, players COULD only just wait for delve cap reset and completely ignore mapping.

Why not simplify everything by changing the actual "variable" system by a "fixed" one?

Yes, I am suggesting a system like Greater Rifts in Diablo 3.



Example (and I'm just dropping numbers):

Maps tier 1-5: you get 1-2 sulphite fragments.
Maps tier 5-11: you get 3-5 sulphite fragments.
Maps tier 11-17: you get 6-10 sulphite fragments.

Each Delve run would need just one fragment, no matter its length.


"But this system would allow too much "delve autonomy"."
Jesus Christ. Just let people do whatever they want.

After I have tasted how this patch works, I know that I should play other games now.

Old Delve was a good mechanism. Farming sulfur in Quarry is great for low level and low buget players. After this patch, Delve is transformed from an amusement to a torture, simply saying, it's not fun any longer. So low level players in shallow mine won't do more maps, but more Quarry or less play time in POE.

You can limit how many times a player can enter story line maps in a period, for the quarry problem. Increasing delve costing so much is not a good idea.

If you want to encourage players to play higher content there is an
easy way to do it: just increase the droprate of higher level maps.
I had to buy lvl 14 + 15 maps on poetrade to get the fragments,
just frustating get stucked at tier 9-11 maps, ppl are happy that
with delve there is an alternative to the atlas, not everybody
is playing 30 maps an hour like some streamers.

This whole issue just further highlights how streamers kill games.
As streamers have a large audience game devs feel the need to keep the game "exciting" for the streamers and as such ruins the game for the actual player base that hasn't taken on gaming as a job. -- Yes streaming/playing games is your job, work isn't "fun"
All these tweaks are aimed at the people who are playing this game as a job and for the normal player it will always drive people away in the end.

Tweak the delve sulpite gains for the playerbase not 24/7 streamers. If they get bored it is not your problem as a game dev to keep them happy as they are way out of the norm for game use.

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Baallerith wrote:

Why not simplify everything by changing the actual "variable" system by a "fixed" one?

Yes, I am suggesting a system like Greater Rifts in Diablo 3.



Example (and I'm just dropping numbers):

Maps tier 1-5: you get 1-2 sulphite fragments.
Maps tier 5-11: you get 3-5 sulphite fragments.
Maps tier 11-17: you get 6-10 sulphite fragments.

Each Delve run would need just one fragment, no matter its length.


"But this system would allow too much "delve autonomy"."
Jesus Christ. Just let people do whatever they want.

Half agree :3

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Noelahg wrote:

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DoomCarpace wrote:

This might've been answered earlier but don't have the time to search all 27 pages. When the patch notes for 3.4.3b came out it talks of length 2 and length 6. Can someone tell me what that means?

Delves are basically a "grid", and up to 1 node spawns in each tile/square. a "2 length" would just be a node connecting directly to its neighbor (they're touching), where a 6 would be node - path path path path - node.

Thanks for the answer.