[3.5] Occult ArcPoet - All Content | Millions+ DPS | ÜElder | Delve 1k+ | Videos

I got life + mana leech enchant on first try on my boots. Is it good or should i reroll?

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Riince wrote:

I see, I think what happened is I misunderstood this PoB https://pastebin.com/TwUsjbJT with Frenzy linked to multistrike and melee splash which shouldn't work with poet's pen as far as I understood, so I thought I could just ignore them.

Mine ramps up higher than yours does in that pob if your edited Indigon's is any indication, but presumably slower, and you still do a bit more damage because of those crazy jewels haha. Interesting.

Those two red Links do work! Like - they do nothing for the Frenzy Projectiles we shoot - but they *DO* increase the cost. But since this is EXACTLY what we want from those links, it works perfectly.

I think I halfed the Indigon Value I put into the PoB there to give a conservative estimate. Its also possible that one of the red supports and another blue one might at the end of it be better for the ramp - but that depends ultimately on a lot of factors- i.e. if you have max mana rolls on your gear, what the exact roll on the voidbringers are, what the rolls on the indigon are, how many mananodes you are able to pick up on the tree etc etc.

Ultimately thats the reason I encourage people to Math out their own Indigon and what the optimal cost of Frenzy for their ramp is and how they can achieve it. Some people might have low mana increase rolls on voidbringers and indigon - they might need the two red supports to spend a lot of mana quickly. Others might just use one red and one green/blue one. Others like you might be happy with just two blue supports - its impossible to give a 'definitive' answer/buildguide for an Item such as Indigon.

Then there is the factor what the people playing with it want out of it - I myself prefer a short ramp <4 seconds since against most bosses where the damage actually counts, one ought to ramp quickly. (uber elder when shaper starts his beam - you have a short timewindow to do damage. I want to make the most out of that timeframe - others who mostly map are fine with at ~10sec ramp.)

I understand when people grow frustrated with my answer: 'Calculate it for yourself and your gear' - but it is in all honesty the only true and the best answer for this question.

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Riince wrote:

One thing I don't understand is how you got that 1177 number from my Indigon, I plugged them into the calculator and got a much lower one. Did I do something wrong here?

https://alt0172.github.io/poe-indigon-calc/#120;0.26;0;54;60;65;74;0;2480;620;88;88;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0

I don't think I get 20% of maximum mana to my maximum leech from anywhere, does the calculator actually not assume the default 20% cap and you have to set it? Because this seems more like that text field is for if you have Spirit Void/Essence Sap nodes etc. which we don't.

That said, the 6-link frenzy setup is obliterating bosses like i never did before, there's just a bigger gap in damage between our 2 setups than i initially thought if im right

Yes, you forgot that Warlords Mark enables us to ManaLeech. And since we are occultist it always works! even against hex immune enemies.

https://alt0172.github.io/poe-indigon-calc/#120;0.26;0;54;60;65;74;0;2480;620;88;88;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;20

Leech is always 20% of the max value. There are some nodes in the tree (most of them close to the slayer and vaal pact) which increase that value - but for us the default value of 20% is what we need. I think the Vorici implicit on gear also increases leechrate - but I am not sure if that isn't only active for life and not for mana.

ManaLeech is actually the strongest factor for Indigon-Ramps.

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Cyrix1337 wrote:

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Riince wrote:

One thing I don't understand is how you got that 1177 number from my Indigon, I plugged them into the calculator and got a much lower one. Did I do something wrong here?

https://alt0172.github.io/poe-indigon-calc/#120;0.26;0;54;60;65;74;0;2480;620;88;88;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0

I don't think I get 20% of maximum mana to my maximum leech from anywhere, does the calculator actually not assume the default 20% cap and you have to set it? Because this seems more like that text field is for if you have Spirit Void/Essence Sap nodes etc. which we don't.

That said, the 6-link frenzy setup is obliterating bosses like i never did before, there's just a bigger gap in damage between our 2 setups than i initially thought if im right

Yes, you forgot that Warlords Mark enables us to ManaLeech. And since we are occultist it always works! even against hex immune enemies.

https://alt0172.github.io/poe-indigon-calc/#120;0.26;0;54;60;65;74;0;2480;620;88;88;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;20

Leech is always 20% of the max value. There are some nodes in the tree (most of them close to the slayer and vaal pact) which increase that value - but for us the default value of 20% is what we need. I think the Vorici implicit on gear also increases leechrate - but I am not sure if that isn't only active for life and not for mana.

ManaLeech is actually the strongest factor for Indigon-Ramps.

I see, it's just that I believe that leaving that value at 0 was equivalent to having 20% mana leech since it's phrased as "%of maximum Mana per second to maximum Mana Leech rate" as if it were an addition to the baseline 20% per sec leech. That's also how increases in mana leech rate is phrased on the skill tree. When i put -20 into the field, no leech and full leech tables were matching, so it seemed as if I had subtracted 20 from a baseline of 20.

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ZzzZZzzZZZZ wrote:

First, a big thank you to the autor of the guide ! I followed it for my second character and I really (really!) enjoy the playstyle and the overall thematics around it(Occultist, Poet's pen, low life ; a lot of very unique mechanics on this char, strong "PoE" Vibe).

I have a question : I'm still on my way to get all the recommanded items (it's kind of hard to plan with all those lacking resist and stats imo, even tho it's doable it takes time) and I was planning to buy a lvl 4 Enlighten in order to switch to Indigon. Well, after getting some jewels.
In the guide, and in some comments I read earlier, I've seen the autor put some strong warning about this switch. Is Indigon really that hard to balance ?
Do we really need TWO level 4 Enlighten to make it works ?

Also, I went for a curse on hit setup on my chest (conductivity, mb switch to enfeeble later) and was thinking about getting the +1 curse nodes (3 points) if I manage to get a curse on hit Voidbringer. Is this really weaker than the guide Setup in your opinion ? I dont really get why we dont go for it as an Occultist with "spare" links, and knowing we travel just around the nodes.

Anyway, thanks again for the guide ! and sorry for the approximative English

Good luck have fun !

It is not 'hard' once you understand it.

But I explained things multiple times - linked a calculator to it and people still don't even seem to understand what the item is about.
At this point I kinda have given up on explaining it. Some people here like @Riince make an effort to grok it - pob the values they get out of their calculator etc.

Those people I tend to help out because they put actual effort into this and don't just wait for me to solve all their problems.

If you make an effort I am the last person whos not willing to help you. If you are one of the (many, many, many...) people here who don't even read the OP, just copy some gear and links and then cry when they are stuck - don't expect an answer from me.

One lv4 enlighten is fine to start out - a second one is recommended, though you can make do with a lv4 and lv 3 for the start.

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Riince wrote:

I see, it's just that I believe that leaving that value at 0 was equivalent to having 20% mana leech since it's phrased as "%of maximum Mana per second to maximum Mana Leech rate" as if it were an addition to the baseline 20% per sec leech. That's also how increases in mana leech rate is phrased on the skill tree. When i put -20 into the field, no leech and full leech tables were matching, so it seemed as if I had subtracted 20 from a baseline of 20.

You are right - I am an idiot.

Your value is the correct one! :)

€dit: fixed OP as well. The correct info was in the PoB already - no idea why I put a broken link to that calculator. between 700 and 760 is the value for OP indigon and I put in 730 in the PoB.

So the PoB was correct - I messed up the Calculator later on in my head. Thank You!

€dits little sisters wants to tell you that I am happy that the 6link frenzy works out for you and that the bosses melt away. :P

could you check my gear and skill tree?

when i compare your league setup in POB with mine ur ball lightning das 10x more damage than mine. my arc is fine. and i compared everything. i dont really get it.

thanks in advance

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hekaria wrote:

could you check my gear and skill tree?

when i compare your league setup in POB with mine ur ball lightning das 10x more damage than mine. my arc is fine. and i compared everything. i dont really get it.

thanks in advance

Please use PoB. With that I mean please post your PoB.

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Cyrix1337 wrote:

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ZzzZZzzZZZZ wrote:

First, a big thank you to the autor of the guide ! I followed it for my second character and I really (really!) enjoy the playstyle and the overall thematics around it(Occultist, Poet's pen, low life ; a lot of very unique mechanics on this char, strong "PoE" Vibe).

I have a question : I'm still on my way to get all the recommanded items (it's kind of hard to plan with all those lacking resist and stats imo, even tho it's doable it takes time) and I was planning to buy a lvl 4 Enlighten in order to switch to Indigon. Well, after getting some jewels.
In the guide, and in some comments I read earlier, I've seen the autor put some strong warning about this switch. Is Indigon really that hard to balance ?
Do we really need TWO level 4 Enlighten to make it works ?

Also, I went for a curse on hit setup on my chest (conductivity, mb switch to enfeeble later) and was thinking about getting the +1 curse nodes (3 points) if I manage to get a curse on hit Voidbringer. Is this really weaker than the guide Setup in your opinion ? I dont really get why we dont go for it as an Occultist with "spare" links, and knowing we travel just around the nodes.

Anyway, thanks again for the guide ! and sorry for the approximative English

Good luck have fun !

It is not 'hard' once you understand it.

But I explained things multiple times - linked a calculator to it and people still don't even seem to understand what the item is about.
At this point I kinda have given up on explaining it. Some people here like @Riince make an effort to grok it - pob the values they get out of their calculator etc.

Those people I tend to help out because they put actual effort into this and don't just wait for me to solve all their problems.

If you make an effort I am the last person whos not willing to help you. If you are one of the (many, many, many...) people here who don't even read the OP, just copy some gear and links and then cry when they are stuck - don't expect an answer from me.

One lv4 enlighten is fine to start out - a second one is recommended, though you can make do with a lv4 and lv 3 for the start.

Hey Cyrix, I can understand what you are saying here, and I get the frustration with folks not willing to dig into it themselves.

With that being said, I have never used nor understood Indigon and I am trying to understand how you are spending enough mana to make use of it. When I google guides about the helm they seem to make use of gems and other things to increase mana spent by a lot, but I don't see those in the POB you have.

Would you be willing to give me a really rough/quick idea of how it works in this build?

Sorry if the questions is answered elsewhere, you can point me in that direction that is the case.

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dday_0612 wrote:

Hey Cyrix, I can understand what you are saying here, and I get the frustration with folks not willing to dig into it themselves.

With that being said, I have never used nor understood Indigon and I am trying to understand how you are spending enough mana to make use of it. When I google guides about the helm they seem to make use of gems and other things to increase mana spent by a lot, but I don't see those in the POB you have.

Would you be willing to give me a really rough/quick idea of how it works in this build?

Sorry if the questions is answered elsewhere, you can point me in that direction that is the case.

Essentially thats were the two red sockets in the 6-link frenzy come into play. The two most expensive (in terms of mana!) support gems in the game are red gems.

Its melee splash and multistrike.

They do *NOTHING* for frenzy (fired from a wand) itself. They can stay at lv1 and have no quality. They are *ONLY* there to make the Frenzy more expensive.

We can afford to do something like that - useing support gems soley because they increase manacost - since our frenzy is just there to trigger the Poet's Pens. Frenzy doesn't deal any significant amount of damage in this build.

Thats why we can get away with a lot less mana-increase investment then other Builds who need to put supports into their skill that actually make sense - but do not increase the manacost as much.

The other point is that we use Voidbringers - which can roll with up to 80% increased ManaCost. That means they are almost worth as much as a Fevered Mind Jewel - which is propably one jewel you see other builds use as well.

Last but not least: We do not build 'around' Indigon. A lot of people/buildguides *focus* on this Item - they play a Hierophant, with lots of mana increases - 3 Grand Spectrums, fevered Minds etc etc.
But they tend to forget that Investment has diminishing returns - meaning: Its easy to go from 1k Mana to 2.5k Mana. (For us thats basically just the Healthy Mind) But its really costly to go from 3k Mana to 5k comperativly.

So I simple did not do that with this build. I instead snatched up other multipliers - like Frenzy Charges, CritMultis, Crit, LightningPenetraion, Curses, Pain Attunment, Shock and PowerCharges... - it was always on the back of my mind to make 'efficient' choices - not to overcommit to one mechanic or another. Thats why this build works without an Indigon and just with a Vertex for example.

Thats also why it works with an Indigon without crazy commitment to it - even though we do not get that much out of an Indigon as other builds - we still get enough out of it to be efficient with our nodes and other mechanics to outperform other builds overall. Even if we only get 700% increased SpellDamage out of Indion - we have like a *10 overall Multiplier due to other stuff. Meaning we effectivly get 7000% increased Damage out of our Indigon. Even though on paper we 'waste' indigon compared to other builds who get 5000% increased SpellDamage out of Indigon but have no other Multiplier going.

Last but not least: It makes us fairly nerf-proof. Though we obviously never know on that front. :P

So thats my basic Idea behind this build and its relationship with Indigon.