Kay's Summoner Memorial Page | New Guide is linked inside!
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Scyntos wrote:
This guide is awesome with all the tiny details! Great job!
What I really struggle to understand is why to bother with PoH, if W/S with Victario and Aegis is cheaper and even more effective. And this pair is not even in the guide!
PoH gives your specters:
- flat 52% more damage;
- 18% block chance;
- 100% mana, which makes sense only for more ES from ridiculously priced jewel.
Victario + Aegis give your minions:
- stable 3 Frenzy charges, which is pure 42% more damage (45% increased cast speed, 12% more damage);
- whatever damage mods you can get on wand. To keep the price low, let's just include 20% minions cast speed increase, which is 10% more damage.
So, even these two things are bringing W/S on par with PoH. And here is a big list of other quality of life things you get:
- movement speed from Frenzy charges;
- power charges on kill, which is another 26% multiplier on average. They are up for any clearing and bosses with adds;
- +1 to all minion skills;
- trigger on skill, which is a cool utility thing to cast desecrate/offering/EE trigger automatically;
- non-lightning damage to trigger EE with auto-cast AoE skill in the wand, like vortex. Works perfectly everywhere;
- some def mods for you minions from the shield, including 24% block.
It seems my DPS in PoB is higher, than Kay's, and that's without level 5 awakened gems and any overpriced gear piece (I don't know, if 1-2 ex per jewel can be considered luxury):
https://pastebin.com/7ctFkppy
Few things for PoB:
- since PoB doesn't know about Greater Spell Echo, I've just added pure 52% more damage, as recommended in PoE Wiki;
- my wand has "Nearby Allies have +50% to Critical Strike Multiplier" mod to include Kingmaker aura. I've also added it to PoH for fair comparison;
- I've unchecked Deathmark and shock for both builds.
Seriously, am I missing something?
As I completely fell in love with this build, I'd be glad to hear any feedback!
Just a few things after i gave your PoB a short look, your Dps isnt higher than a Pledge build, you are at 1,8 million per spectre in your link while my profile shows 2,2 million (without even considering what my 5ex AG brings to the table).
Thats mostly bc you made assumptions favorable for you, like not running Skitterbots and disabling shock in both builds bc of that.
And while the damage might be comparable you are also ignoring the fact that it is situational and you wont have a 100% uptime of all charges, while also ignoring the aoe PoH grants you.
Besides that you are also not considering that you used your shield slot plus some skill points to give your minions charges although you can reach basically the same dps going for a stave, which also gives you another 6link.
Kinda sums up why a stave like Pledge is better if you are looking for DPS (ignoring the block affix) but if you would want more tankiness the W+S version of this guide is way ahead of whatever you can achieve with Aegis.
Last edited by ElCatti#2529 on Jan 14, 2020, 11:46:11 AM
This guide is awesome with all the tiny details! Great job!
What I really struggle to understand is why to bother with PoH, if W/S with Victario and Aegis is cheaper and even more effective. And this pair is not even in the guide!
PoH gives your specters:
- flat 52% more damage;
- 18% block chance;
- 100% mana, which makes sense only for more ES from ridiculously priced jewel.
Victario + Aegis give your minions:
- stable 3 Frenzy charges, which is pure 42% more damage (45% increased cast speed, 12% more damage);
- whatever damage mods you can get on wand. To keep the price low, let's just include 20% minions cast speed increase, which is 10% more damage
...
Seriously, am I missing something?
As I completely fell in love with this build, I'd be glad to hear any feedback!
You forgot Flesh Offering in a trigger wand for more cast speed.
But this is why I don't quote PoB numbers in my guide. The numbers will look similar better in PoB, but PoH will also give 150% increase aoe (on 3rd repeat), so it's more like a 8L. This will let you use Conc Effect with no negative effect on range for SDs. Or will allow SDs to offscreen kill if you don't use Conc. A big boost for mapping.
I've tested both with the EB & MoM tree and Pledge feels better than using a wand and victario's (taking aegis). It's hard to understand it without trying it, though.
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
Hi I like your guide a lot!!! Really suits how I want to play.
Just have a few questions.
1) whats your opinion about zealotry together with wrath? What significant thing does it do and is it worth it?
2) the math doesnt seem to add up for me:
I cant use the haste aura together with wrath and skitterbots. Theres not enough mana reserve even if i took the same path as your tree. (Im just level 88 btw)
3) is a 6L vis mortis good? +20% chaos damage altho im not sure what chaos damage does on this particular build if its worth it compared to having an extra spectre.
Sorry if I have a lot of questions Im relatively new to the game >_<
If you can run two 50% auras, I always recommend vaal haste and wrath (or zealotry if using fire spectres) because you can use a watcher's eye with phasing/haste to get permanent phasing. This will give a big boost to survivability because you will never get body blocked ever again. You will notice this the most in delve. I've tried using just a phasing flask, but the flask is inconsistent.
Don't forget to take Sovereignty and put all the stuff in your helmet! The 6% reduced mana reserve and 25% reduced mana reserve in the helmet will let you run all 3.
6L Vis reduces minion health and Elemental Focus won't boost chaos damage. You could use Vis, but you will need to swap Ele Focus to Cont Dest. I think you are better off getting a +1 chest.
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
The +1 int gems on ammy -- does the effect of this affix work in PoB? It doesn't seem to change any of my gems or stats in my PoB.
I use the fork i mentioned earlier and it works correctly in there, the dmg+number of spectres change when i comment it out vs not.
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Severinze wrote:
Also, @ElCatti - I'm interested in your thoughts on the new PoH. If it's similar to 3.8, I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna prefer W&S. I lost way too much survivability in 3.8 and I didn't care for it, even though it was a significant damage boost. I died 4 times leveling to 95 with W&S but died a couple dozen while farming juiced up as PoH and never hit 96. Anyway, please report back.
Wasnt able to play with my new setup yet, im expecting a few more deaths but a better mapping experience in general, the small aoe from my wand setup kinda annoyed me.
Ah, ok, I've seen a link to some forks on Reddit but haven't actually installed one. I'll give it a go.
Regarding PoH, it is possible I just didn't quite get used to the difference in playstyle. I was swimming in currency last league and spent about 70ex on my PoH build, which included a Watcher's Eye with ES/Clarity and Haste/Phase, and I still died a lot. The clear speed was absolutely bonkers, but dying infuriates me.
I'm not foolish enough to assume it's the build or anything like that. W&S is so easy with Trigger, where PoH was a little more "work" but even with over 10k EHP and the passive from Diadem proccing, I still felt squishy and I really did die a lot. It's possible I could've refined my tree or gear more, but with that much currency invested and being lvl 95, I feel like I was about as decked out as I could've been.
Anyway, I'm eager to hear back from you after some playtesting.
And @Kay, I can't say enough how great this build and guide is. It's no surprise it's over 800 pages long now :)
Hey everyone! I'm excited to be back for more SD love in 3.9.
Searching for this answer but can't find it, so forgive me if it's been answered:
The +1 int gems on ammy -- does the effect of this affix work in PoB? It doesn't seem to change any of my gems or stats in my PoB.
Also, @ElCatti - I'm interested in your thoughts on the new PoH. If it's similar to 3.8, I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna prefer W&S. I lost way too much survivability in 3.8 and I didn't care for it, even though it was a significant damage boost. I died 4 times leveling to 95 with W&S but died a couple dozen while farming juiced up as PoH and never hit 96. Anyway, please report back.
You should switch to localidentity's PoB version. Original PoB only gets some new data at league start, but no need features.
Nothing has changed for PoH's survivability. The build is still kill first or get killed :) You can stick with W&S, other players have said they have no problem with Sirus 8 with W&S!
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
Would you not choose an Ahn's Heritage Shield for the +3 to all max Res instead for the extra defence? Or would the %5 increased life on block be better?
The life recovery is very noticeable when you are taking many hits and blocking them often. For mapping its incredibly noticeable and trivializes packs that can't hit you very hard to a hilarious degree honestly, when your block is high enough. Porcupines essentially act as a healing potion on death.
Against endgame bosses I could see the increased max resistance as an improvement in order to diminish the damage of very heavy attacks, but aside from that I would likely just stick to the %hp on block shield.
The extra 3% might not be enough against really big hits.
One shield might be worth considering:
VMS gives me another 8900 eHP putting me at 17k eHP with 75/50 block and 15/15 dodge and 250 life recovery per block. It's not bad.
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
Last edited by kayella#0845 on Jan 14, 2020, 12:59:11 PM
Regarding PoH, it is possible I just didn't quite get used to the difference in playstyle. I was swimming in currency last league and spent about 70ex on my PoH build, which included a Watcher's Eye with ES/Clarity and Haste/Phase, and I still died a lot. The clear speed was absolutely bonkers, but dying infuriates me.
Considering that most of my deaths are oneshots i came to the conclusion that Bone Armour/Molten Shell+ VMS would help more than a Cwdt+IC setup, you could give it a try.
Regarding PoH, it is possible I just didn't quite get used to the difference in playstyle. I was swimming in currency last league and spent about 70ex on my PoH build, which included a Watcher's Eye with ES/Clarity and Haste/Phase, and I still died a lot. The clear speed was absolutely bonkers, but dying infuriates me.
Considering that most of my deaths are oneshots i came to the conclusion that Bone Armour/Molten Shell+ VMS would help more than a Cwdt+IC setup, you could give it a try.
How is that working for you? I am in the same boat... My rare death are always Metamorph one shots that I honestly have no idea wtf it was that hit me most of the time.
Last edited by Vaildez#6753 on Jan 14, 2020, 1:09:52 PM
Would you not choose an Ahn's Heritage Shield for the +3 to all max Res instead for the extra defence? Or would the %5 increased life on block be better?
I can concur with Dr_Wong on this one -- the % life on block is very noticeable, especially in high density situations.
