Kay's Summoner Memorial Page | New Guide is linked inside!

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NeoLearner wrote:

Depending on the new numbers on feeding frenzy I might swap it to meat shield. Was anyway planning on running AG and with Meat shield as support it opens up the possibility of running Kingmaker for the support.

The movement speed loss is going to hurt for Slave Drivers who need to close the gap. Movespeed craft on rings mandatory?

I'll need to dive into POB, but could an Empower not make sense now in the PoH build? Gains us the Spectre back, at the cost of faster casting & a more difficult swap for conc effect (needs white sockets).

Option 1: Faster Casting with 4 spectres would have more overall DPS than option 2: Empower with 5 spectres. So option 1 is better for boss killing and option 2 better for map clearing. 4 spectres was what he had since forever, so the 5th spectre won't be a big loss.

Also it seems that shock calculation is changing, so it could be better to drop Ele Focus. RS + Echo + Conc + Min Dmg + DM + FC.

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kayella wrote:

Option 1: Faster Casting with 4 spectres would have more overall DPS than option 2: Empower with 5 spectres. So option 1 is better for boss killing and option 2 better for map clearing. 4 spectres was what he had since forever, so the 5th spectre won't be a big loss.

Also it seems that shock calculation is changing, so it could be better to drop Ele Focus. RS + Echo + Conc + Min Dmg + DM + FC.

My POB seems to indicate empower is higher DPS.
Starting from your PoH POB and 5 links (RS, Echo, Min D, Ele focus, DM)
+ Faster Casting: 24% dps
+ Empower 3: 11.5%. But also + 25% as 4->5th Spectre (or even 33% without a Spectre chest / Vis Mortis).

Dropping Ele Focus sounding potentially very interesting, DPS of the individual spectres seems big enough to have some actually Shock possibilities. Dropping Skitterbots then I guess. For a Flesh & Stone defensive upgrade? Or a banner?

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NeoLearner wrote:

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kayella wrote:

Option 1: Faster Casting with 4 spectres would have more overall DPS than option 2: Empower with 5 spectres. So option 1 is better for boss killing and option 2 better for map clearing. 4 spectres was what he had since forever, so the 5th spectre won't be a big loss.

Also it seems that shock calculation is changing, so it could be better to drop Ele Focus. RS + Echo + Conc + Min Dmg + DM + FC.

My POB seems to indicate empower is higher DPS.
Starting from your PoH POB and 5 links (RS, Echo, Min D, Ele focus, DM)
+ Faster Casting: 24% dps
+ Empower 3: 11.5%. But also + 25% as 4->5th Spectre (or even 33% without a Spectre chest / Vis Mortis).

Dropping Ele Focus sounding potentially very interesting, DPS of the individual spectres seems big enough to have some actually Shock possibilities. Dropping Skitterbots then I guess. For a Flesh & Stone defensive upgrade? Or a banner?

Yes you are right!

On the pre-3.9 build (no FF, no skitter), it's about 2.1M with RS + Echo + Min D + Conc + DM + FC. and 4 spectres. so 8M pob DPS.

If we go with RS + Echo + Min D + Conc + DM + Emp4, it is 2M and 5 spectres. so 10M pob DPS. It is 3M with current FF and skitter shock.

A small bonus will be that colouring a PoH for 5B1R is far easier than 6B.

In 3.7, before skitterbots, the build had both Flesh & Stone and Dread Banner. If we drop FF and skitters, we can have both again.

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Pud1MxD wrote:

So we lose a spectre, not good but could be worse I think. Zombies were destroyed tho, will they still be good to have?

I'm thinking of replacing zombies with AG + stone golem.

For W&S, skeletons in the trigger wand will keep the minion count at 10+ for Bone Barrier.

For PoH, zombies are only for elemental army exposure and feeding frenzy.

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Pud1MxD wrote:

It's still doable, making the +1 to level of all minion gems the most important mod on the wand now because it enables us to get one more spectre.

Another interesting point: a +1 wand and a +1 chest will take the W&S build to 5 spectres without any compromise to the 6L group. However, the PoH build will have to give up a damage support gem for Empower 3 for the 5th spectre.

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kayella wrote:

A small bonus will be that colouring a PoH for 5B1R is far easier than 6B.

In 3.7, before skitterbots, the build had both Flesh & Stone and Dread Banner. If we drop FF and skitters, we can have both again.

119 chromes to 20 chromes on average. I like those odds :) I'll be going Empower. Likely won't have a 6link early anyway, gives me time to level the empower in a +qual offhand.

Flesh & stone/Dread banner - Gaining 53% evade chance - sounds nice, and has further upside. Having a higher evade chance goes nicely with the bone offering of the W&S build. Blocking counts as being hit, resetting the entropy of evade. Also somewhat frees the gloves from needing a Shaped blind mod. With multicraft gone getting goods ones will likely be more difficult.

Looking into the shock calculations, plotting those on an exponential trend line, the calculation seems to indicate that for a 20% shock - to break even with skitterbots - you need around 6% of boss life to shock. With our 430k hit damage (assuming Conc effect, looking to shock bosses), we can 20% shock bosses that have 7.2Mlife. Seems rather low life for end game bosses. So we would rather end up with a ~8-10% shock. Likely still good but less raw damage than skitterbots

EDIT: seems I did not read the manifesto correctly, missing 2 things
1) Skitterbots nerfed to 15% shock effect
2) Bosses will have an ailment threshold which is different from their total health, making them easier to shock. It is mentioned that for Shaper it is around half the life.

This changes things. This likely means that we will be able to get a similar or higher shock effect directly from Spectres, freeing up another defensive aura (Flesh and Stone for example).

I have a question for anyone who is interested in my build guide:

Are you happy with phase run + quicksilver and click to move or would you prefer to use shield charge (linked to fortify)?

I prefer click to move because it gives more control. I don't like to use shield charge because it tends to get stuck on terrain features such as rocks.

Phase run.

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kayella wrote:

I have a question for anyone who is interested in my build guide:

Are you happy with phase run + quicksilver and click to move or would you prefer to use shield charge (linked to fortify)?

I prefer click to move because it gives more control. I don't like to use shield charge because it tends to get stuck on terrain features such as rocks.

I used your build for 3.8. and it was the best I've ever played. So I decided to give it another shot in 3.9.despite the nerfs and I also prefer Phase Run. I've played Shield Charge/Fortify with different characters a lot and must say Phase Run felt a lot better.

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kayella wrote:

I have a question for anyone who is interested in my build guide:

Are you happy with phase run + quicksilver and click to move or would you prefer to use shield charge (linked to fortify)?

I prefer click to move because it gives more control. I don't like to use shield charge because it tends to get stuck on terrain features such as rocks.

I personally used Shield Charge and liked it.