Remove the lab, it is what made me quit Abyss and now I am torturing myself

"

MuesliKriega wrote:

Just remove it, it is the absolute worst content ever created for PoE, it is so unbelievably shit. If you die you wasted 100% of your time wihtout any progress.
If you DC you wasted 100% of your time without any progress. Izaros hitboxes are terrible. And sometimes I cant even see what kills me.
It is impossible to put into words how much I hate the lab. But I have to do it, or I can basically stop playing because I most likely wont progress any farthar than yellow maps.

And on a side note. The Kitava fight is easliy the most shitty designed fight. Not even Malachai is that bad. Small arena, all dark/red. Boss is dark/red and his attacks are gigantic and dark/red

thanks for reading my blog

I love labyrinth, it's so easy and challenging, different mechanic than the rest of the game, you have to, you know THINK to do it. It's something hard to do, i reckon.

PLEASE KEEP THE LABYRINTH THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!

Also, Kitava is much easier than malachai, in the Malachai fight, you can't see shit cause its ALL RED (not even dark+ red like you said) SIMPLE, PURE, RED. And he puts the most stupid blood mines which are nearly impossible to see and STACK THE HELL up in the arena (which can actually kill you after he is dead lmao).

"

j33bus wrote:

The lab is literally the same content as the rest of acts 1-10 except that every once in a while you encounter a trap that you have to wait a few seconds to time right.

At this point Lab is ignoring traps completely unless you play a lab unfriendly build.

Speaking as a new player (2 weeks tomorrow), I abhor the Lab. I'm an experienced gamer (gaming since 1979 starting with my atari 2600)and pick things up really quick but this place had me wanting to smash my laptop with a blunt object repeatedly. You don't learn much of anything from one run to the next as each time you enter, it's different. Different traps, different mobs, etc. Nothing is more frustrating than locking player progression (yes, ascendencies are player progression) behind something that should be totally optional. Rewarding if you want the challenge and like it, sure! Go for it! But don't lock progression behind it. For those of you playing for years, yes it's easy for you. I get it. You love it. No one is stopping you from liking it and wanting to do it but don't force the rest of us to do it just to progress. Notice my theme here? DON'T LOCK PLAYER PROGRESSION behind the Lab!! Make it a place to go when you want a challenge and want to be handsomely rewarded!! Someone mentioned it before, but experience loss is so 1998 when EQ was the major game out. Get rid of it! No one likes going backward. Players want to be rewarded for their time spent. I have noticed the higher I get, the less xp I get, so the more time I have to spend levelling up. Really sux when you space out for a second when mobs die and they explode and instantly killing you. Then you lose an hours worth of xp. Gaming has progressed to the point where no game out I play has xp loss EXCEPT this one. This game is already complicated enough and totally overwhelming to new players. You don't have to make it worse for us. As a game designer/developer you want as many people playing your game as possible. Word of mouth and fun play experience draws players in and increases your profits. Try to make it fun for all, not just a few players. Make challenges optional. Provide different paths for players of different skill levels (yes, some are pro at gaming where others are not). I think I'll stop here now.

Just my 2 cents.

"

Axxehole wrote:

Speaking as a new player (2 weeks tomorrow), I abhor the Lab. I'm an experienced gamer (gaming since 1979 starting with my atari 2600)and pick things up really quick but this place had me wanting to smash my laptop with a blunt object repeatedly. You don't learn much of anything from one run to the next as each time you enter, it's different. Different traps, different mobs, etc. Nothing is more frustrating than locking player progression (yes, ascendencies are player progression) behind something that should be totally optional. Rewarding if you want the challenge and like it, sure! Go for it! But don't lock progression behind it. For those of you playing for years, yes it's easy for you. I get it. You love it. No one is stopping you from liking it and wanting to do it but don't force the rest of us to do it just to progress. Notice my theme here? DON'T LOCK PLAYER PROGRESSION behind the Lab!! Make it a place to go when you want a challenge and want to be handsomely rewarded!! Someone mentioned it before, but experience loss is so 1998 when EQ was the major game out. Get rid of it! No one likes going backward. Players want to be rewarded for their time spent. I have noticed the higher I get, the less xp I get, so the more time I have to spend levelling up. Really sux when you space out for a second when mobs die and they explode and instantly killing you. Then you lose an hours worth of xp. Gaming has progressed to the point where no game out I play has xp loss EXCEPT this one. This game is already complicated enough and totally overwhelming to new players. You don't have to make it worse for us. As a game designer/developer you want as many people playing your game as possible. Word of mouth and fun play experience draws players in and increases your profits. Try to make it fun for all, not just a few players. Make challenges optional. Provide different paths for players of different skill levels (yes, some are pro at gaming where others are not). I think I'll stop here now.

Just my 2 cents.

Lab is disliked-to-hated by a broad cross-section of all players, new and experienced. Multiple streamers have repeatedly expressed their dislike and disdain for lab and a moderately recent review of POE singled out lab as "bad design". Plus, plenty of players have made a ragequit post or posted about wanting to ragequit because of lab, so you are far from alone that way, as well.

Thank you for speaking up. You're doing GGG a favor, whether they appreciate it or not.

"

Axxehole wrote:

Speaking as a new player (2 weeks tomorrow), I abhor the Lab. I'm an experienced gamer (gaming since 1979 starting with my atari 2600)and pick things up really quick but this place had me wanting to smash my laptop with a blunt object repeatedly. You don't learn much of anything from one run to the next as each time you enter, it's different. Different traps, different mobs, etc. Nothing is more frustrating than locking player progression (yes, ascendencies are player progression) behind something that should be totally optional. Rewarding if you want the challenge and like it, sure! Go for it! But don't lock progression behind it. For those of you playing for years, yes it's easy for you. I get it. You love it. No one is stopping you from liking it and wanting to do it but don't force the rest of us to do it just to progress. Notice my theme here? DON'T LOCK PLAYER PROGRESSION behind the Lab!! Make it a place to go when you want a challenge and want to be handsomely rewarded!! Someone mentioned it before, but experience loss is so 1998 when EQ was the major game out. Get rid of it! No one likes going backward. Players want to be rewarded for their time spent. I have noticed the higher I get, the less xp I get, so the more time I have to spend levelling up. Really sux when you space out for a second when mobs die and they explode and instantly killing you. Then you lose an hours worth of xp. Gaming has progressed to the point where no game out I play has xp loss EXCEPT this one. This game is already complicated enough and totally overwhelming to new players. You don't have to make it worse for us. As a game designer/developer you want as many people playing your game as possible. Word of mouth and fun play experience draws players in and increases your profits. Try to make it fun for all, not just a few players. Make challenges optional. Provide different paths for players of different skill levels (yes, some are pro at gaming where others are not). I think I'll stop here now.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for posting your opinion of the abhorrent Labyrinth. Izarro would be a fun boss to learn if he wasn't the primary gating factor in completing the abhorrent Labyrinth in order to get the ascendancy points. I don't usually suggest "cheating" this way because a very fun thing to me is learning the boss fights. Learning Izarro though is abhorrent because if you die then the whole abhorrent content has to be repeated. So I suggest "cheating" in this case. zSavage's Brief Guide on how to Kill Izaro

Also, I've added your name to the list of people that have posted similar things about the abhorrent Labyrinth, now at 990 names long. Over 370 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 980 posters in support

"

Axxehole wrote:

Speaking as a new player (2 weeks tomorrow), I abhor the Lab. I'm an experienced gamer (gaming since 1979 starting with my atari 2600)and pick things up really quick but this place had me wanting to smash my laptop with a blunt object repeatedly. You don't learn much of anything from one run to the next as each time you enter, it's different. Different traps, different mobs, etc. Nothing is more frustrating than locking player progression (yes, ascendencies are player progression) behind something that should be totally optional. Rewarding if you want the challenge and like it, sure! Go for it! But don't lock progression behind it. For those of you playing for years, yes it's easy for you. I get it. You love it. No one is stopping you from liking it and wanting to do it but don't force the rest of us to do it just to progress. Notice my theme here? DON'T LOCK PLAYER PROGRESSION behind the Lab!! Make it a place to go when you want a challenge and want to be handsomely rewarded!! Someone mentioned it before, but experience loss is so 1998 when EQ was the major game out. Get rid of it! No one likes going backward. Players want to be rewarded for their time spent. I have noticed the higher I get, the less xp I get, so the more time I have to spend levelling up. Really sux when you space out for a second when mobs die and they explode and instantly killing you. Then you lose an hours worth of xp. Gaming has progressed to the point where no game out I play has xp loss EXCEPT this one. This game is already complicated enough and totally overwhelming to new players. You don't have to make it worse for us. As a game designer/developer you want as many people playing your game as possible. Word of mouth and fun play experience draws players in and increases your profits. Try to make it fun for all, not just a few players. Make challenges optional. Provide different paths for players of different skill levels (yes, some are pro at gaming where others are not). I think I'll stop here now.

Just my 2 cents.

in short you do not have to skill to complete it so you want it removed? and you are a gamer?

the progression is in YOUR skill. you can get better by understanding what makes you fail this content. endgame is much harder than it and most of the mistakes that make you killed - if unfixed - will keep you getting killed

majority of your post says 'i die too often, please fix'. but the truth is - you die because you currently lack the skill to NOT die. you can a) get better and understand what have killed you (mobs die and then you die - porcupines or bearers? first one is fixed with evasion/block, second by moving away) b) moan for game change. i suggest option (a) but the choice is yours

and making challenges optional is the DUMBEST game design ever. it is no longer a game without challenge. you remove the lab then what? remove the bosses? remove the possibility to die? remove the gear progression?

game is a game. you want a clicker passtime - pick another title

just came in to express, that i love the lab.

just some responses to the OP:

"If you die you wasted 100% of your time wihtout any progress." how is this different to any other content in PoE? if u die, you lose xp

"Izaros hitboxes are terrible. And sometimes I cant even see what kills me." see first part of my answer to the first quote

"But I have to do it, or I can basically stop playing because I most likely wont progress any farthar than yellow maps." that might be true. however, you earn some really good stuff from the ascendancies and yes: you have to do something for it. why is that a problem for you? just because you have to pass some traps and can´t rush through the lab, because sometimes you have to click to open some doors?

Lol.

Weeding out the crazies.

Working as intended.

"

Antaiseito wrote:

You did not 100% waste your time when you die. You (hopefully) learned how the trap / monster works and can survive much better next time.
Raging can diminish this profit, so try to think calmly about why you died, to improve.

Out of the 100 runs I've done over several leagues, here's the reasons for all my failed runs:

1. A one-time freak accident. Izaro acted in a way that I've never seen before and never seen since then. I suspect what I saw on my end was massively desynced.

2. Servers.

Let's think calmly how to improve:

1. Dunno. Needs to happen again for me to be able to properly analyze what happened.

2. Donate a million or two to GGG so that they can fix their shit servers.

...

Conclusion: learning curve too immense.

Obviously you didn't read my entire post, Sir. You picked a couple of sentences to focus on and made comments on those. Not once in my entire statement did I say to remove the Lab. I clearly stated, more than once, that player progression should not be locked behind it.

In every game made in the last 15 years where the game constantly evolves, the player has the option of how he/she wants to play and what content he/she wants to conquer. The more gifted with their play skills gravitate towards challenges and difficult content, while the less skilled do not. As a result, the more gifted have the better gear and resources, just as it should be. Contrary to what you might think, optional challenges are NOT the "DUMBEST game design ever". It's how every single popular game attracts and retains players. By providing varied content and options. Also, player progression isn't locked in said games behind content that is overly difficult for the intended level. I looked online and the largest, most overwhelming suggestion was to vastly over level the Lab before heading in because it was overly difficult. Please explain to me how this is good game design?

By all means, leave the Lab where it is. There are people that love it and will continue to do so. What I'm suggesting is to take the Ascendency OUT of the Lab and allow it to be obtained somewhere else. It doesn't really fit with the story line of progression anyhow. The storyline centers around Kitava and killing her. How does the Labyrinth fit in to the storyline? You can actually go through all the acts without obtaining an ascendency, so what does it actually contribute other than something that irritates many, many, many players?

You are right. If I don't like these challenges I can always go to another game that isn't so tedious. Ask yourself this though. Why do gaming companies have an outlet for players to express their concerns and opinions? Why can't I, as the consumer, play the game in a manner that fits my play style? Why must my character be gimped just because I don't find the Lab rewarding and fun? why do these gaming companies make changes in the form of "patches' if they didn't take player input and want to improve player experience so they can increase revenue?

I'll even compromise a little and say do the Lab once to open up the Ascendency but allow the additional points for it to be obtained at level breakpoints.