ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I mean, some illegal immigration is from people who enter illegally, but not much. Border security and illegal immigration are separate issues.

wut.

How are the two separate? They are complicit. Where do you believe the majority of illegal immigrants are flooding in from? Taiwan?

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JNF wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I mean, some illegal immigration is from people who enter illegally, but not much. Border security and illegal immigration are separate issues.

wut.

How are the two separate? They are complicit. Where do you believe the majority of illegal immigrants are flooding in from? Taiwan?

His point is that illegal immigration doesn't come from illegally crossing the border but rather from illegally overstaying their visa.

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faerwin wrote:

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JNF wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I mean, some illegal immigration is from people who enter illegally, but not much. Border security and illegal immigration are separate issues.

wut.

How are the two separate? They are complicit. Where do you believe the majority of illegal immigrants are flooding in from? Taiwan?

His point is that illegal immigration doesn't come from illegally crossing the border but rather from illegally overstaying their visa.

Pretty much. I mean, there's a decent amount of illegal crossing currently, but if you built a Wall the best way around it would be a passport. The current meta isn't a wall meta, so such wall counters, while currently feasible, aren't as dominant as they otherwise would be.

I think its positive progress to discuss the effectivness of the wall, a big step from 'its racist!'


Personally, I think it will be effective as one (important) line of control. You obviously need other measures as a complete solution.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

There are laws on the books, sure, but they're largely not being enforced. If the government got serious about enforcing these laws, as well as imposing stricter penalties, I believe the risk would outweigh the reward for these contractors. Neither political party really wanted to touch this particular issue, at least until Trump got elected. I don't know what the cause is behind the lack of inaction, it could legitimately be a lack of resources and personnel in this area, and it's probably a very widespread issue. ICE might have bigger fish to fry with the limited resources they got.

People like to find one neat, clean thing to point at and go "THIS! THIS IS THE ENTIRE REASON!" It's rarely that simple. The US-Mexico border is huge - the sort of active patrolling The Wall(TM) would require to be even remotely feasible as border security would require someone to draft half the country's population specifically to walk beats on The Wall. Furthermore, as Scrotie's said multiple times, that doesn't actually stop the issue because the issue stems in significant part from the fact that Mexico is literally a Mad Max movie right now and the illegals you're castigating are basically coming here and working for shit pay because it's better than being shot - and they can do that because American businesses can make effective use of them.

You want to stop the Damn Durty Furriner(TM) problem? Fix the labor market, get the cartels out of Mexico (why are we, rightfully mind, contributing to combating terrorism overseas whilst doing fuck-all nothing about the prison riot in our basement?). Then start making a fuss over immigration reform.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

It's always been my opinion that if you're not willing to pay Americans a fair wage for a job, then you got no place doing business here. Get out, go to China, or wherever, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Just my 2 cents.

A company can only make so much money doing any given job. If that money doesn't allow for paying U.S. minimum wage, then that job cannot be done by an American. They lose money doing it, and that is like losing blood to a corporate entity. That's why shitty contractors who underbid their asses off for a job hire Five Dollar Pablos - because they cannot pay U.S. minimum wage for that job.

Does that mean they shouldn't've have gotten the contract, and should go out of business? Probably - but then whatever they were going to build doesn't get built, or gets built for twice the cost which is eventually passed on to you, one way or another.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

My uncle used to be a brick layer, and he made $25/hr back in the late 1980s, which would be equivalent to around $35-$40/hr in 2018 money. Some people just don't understand, especially youth in their teens and early 20s, that a whole lot of jobs that used to pay middle class to upper middle class incomes now pay complete shit. I believe Trump is trying to do something to turn this around.

Trump does not give one single dinky rat turd about your uncle's job. Or anyone else's job. He could not possibly care less. He wants to put up The Wall(TM) because it's a big showy flashy WIN he can mark off his bucket list, and literally the only thing that disgusting frog-man cares about in the entire world is winning. He doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about me. He doesn't care about AMERICA.

Trump wants to win, and to him everything is a fight. It's why he continuously attacks American citizens in social media, why he constantly picks fights with Dems, with news agencies, with foreign officials, with football players, with grannies and nannies and poodles and strudels. Trump. Wants. To. Win. Doesn't matter if he's winning something worth fighting for, or if the fights he's picking are worth having, or even if he's making an utter, disgraceful mockery of his office and giving everyone else in the White House ulcers trying to get him to act like a fucking President.

As soon as he 'wins' The Wall, he will stop giving a fuck about border security and Your Jobs. He'll move on to whatever the next high-profile political fight he can wade into is and devote his everything to winning that and picking personal fights with everyone trying to stop him from winning that. Do not kid yourself into thinking that howling maniac has anyone's best interests in mind.

Not even his own.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

There is a complete lack of apprenticeship programs for skilled trades. A 17-18 year old fresh out of HS, used to be able to sign on somewhere as an apprentice, and in 4-6 years, they'd be a journeyman tradesman, able to make a single income large enough to support a stay at home wife, and 3-4 kids.

Rather than saying "we can't go back to that", people need to ask "why?", and "what's in the way of going back to that?", and then people can decide to elect representatives who are willing to smash these "can't" barriers.

Why can't we go back to forty-dollar-an-hour bricklayers, apprenticeships, and itinerant craftsmen?

Because the world.

Why hire a team of bricklayers and pay hundreds of dollars an hour to build a thing when you can rent a bricklaying machine and pay one, maybe two bricklaying machine operators to do the same job just as effectively for a fraction of the cost?

Why go deep into the hole to pay for an apprentice's education and living expenses in the vain hopes he'll pay you back later after he Makes It Big when you can send that schmuck to a technical school, let them teach him enough trade skill to get a useful job in two years, and get on with your life?

Why try and rewind the clock thirty or forty years when factory automation and fabrication equipment have obsoleted many of the labor jobs people used to have to pay these Upper Middle Class wages to get done? They did so back then because they didn't have a choice. Now they do - and that choice is not Five Dollar Pablo. FDP did not replace your uncle - that bricklaying machine did.

Trump won't bring fifty year old factory jobs back to the U.S. because those jobs don't exist anymore - they've been replaced with automated or semi-automated machinery. You don't need bricklayers or carpenters or holediggers or jigdancers anymore - you need CNC technicians, equipment operators, maintenance personnel for that equipment, and design engineers or architects to figure out how to use all that equipment to produce a Thing for a small fraction of the cost of doing it with a small army of fifty-buck-an-hour capital-T Tradesmen.

This is why I'm such a huge proponent of education as the means of correcting the jobs issue. The old jobs aren't there anymore. They're dying, if they aren't already dead, and people need to let them go. There are lots and lots and lots of new jobs out there, and with two years of tech school - not college, TECHNICAL SCHOOL, you can get one of those jobs all for you. Takes only two years, not four to six, and you're part of the modern workforce.

Quit trying to be part of the 1950s workforce instead.

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diablofdb wrote:

Hey I am offended, everyone is a dreamer. Dreaming isn't an American exclusive.

History is rife with abandoned walls meant to keep the barbarians at bay.

Heh.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

Rather than saying "we can't go back to that", people need to ask "why?", and "what's in the way of going back to that?", and then people can decide to elect representatives who are willing to smash these "can't" barriers.

Why you ask? Well it's obvious: people on welfare tend to vote Democrat, children of illegal immigrants also tend to vote Democrat.

So the more jobs democrats can hand over to illegals, the more votes they get.

Also, you may notice, anytime republicans complain about illegals and welfare, the democrats start SCREAMING false accusations of racism.

Trump isn't afraid of Democrat lies, unlike most republicans, hence Trump is getting things done.