ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

For instance, there is a fake news story spreading currently that tapes of Trump peeing on beds in a Russian hotel are real. (This is partially true, as every good lie is: there were threats to release tapes allegedly showing Trump doing this, and Trump's people did respond to those threats, but Mueller concluded those tapes were most likely fake.) Whoever is reporting on the "pee tape" story is probably motivated less by hate than by clicks (although that reporter probably realizes that, among their target audience, the latter is an excellent indicator of the former). They threw it out there as a test; it trended; they'll probably continue until a counter narrative threatens to overtake it in, um, viral-ness.

I agree with your main point so this might be a minor tangent.

I think the accusation is that the prostitutes peed on the bed in front of Trump. They peed on the bed because it was in the same room that Obama had slept in and Trump liked the idea of peeing on a bed that Obama had slept in. The pee story is probably not true though, at least IMHO.

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Prizy wrote:

I honestly wish both Conservatives and Liberals would move on from this report.

Regardless of what the report tells us (which isn't much imo), this report is just one more crowbar acting to continually divide our country.

I really hate this framing.

Like, let's be clear here - the Muller report may well be the single most damning document we've ever seen published on a presidential administration, other than perhaps the Nixon tapes. At the most basic level, it's Muller telling Congress, "The reason we didn't indict is because it's not our place." It is essentially a referral to congress for impeachment. It shows us quite convincingly that the attorney general has been lying about his job for weeks in fairly brazen ways; that the press secretary knowingly lied to cover for her boss firing Comey, and that Trump Jr. avoided indictment by being too stupid to prove malice. Even if we strip out anything even remotely illegal, it shows dishonesty and grift at a level basically unheard of in the executive branch.

Hey, did you know that Donald Trump ordered one of his underlings to fire Muller, and said underling simply didn't? That's horrifying both because it means that the president tried to follow in Nixon's footsteps (remember, the "Saturday night Massacre" essentially ended Nixon's presidency, because at that point republicans in congress could no longer excuse or ignore his behavior), but also because it means that Trump's subordinates are simply ignoring his instructions! There's your deep state, right there!

With all that in mind... How do you propose we "move on"? What, are we supposed to just ignore this? Treat business as usual, pretend that Trump is just a normal president, and that everything is fine?

How 'bout, instead, we unite around recognizing the utter batshit insanity going on within the Trump administration, oust this incompetent, corrupt buffoon, and move on from there?

Why should the left compromise when it's so clearly in the right?

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Republicans will focus on "poking at liberals" and Democrats will try to continually demonize Trump for really no reason other than Trump being himself.

If you think this is why democrats are demonizing Trump, you aren't listening to what democrats have to say and should try again.

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I wanted this report to bring some closure to the current divide in this country, but all it ended up being is a fucking big detour sign.

This is a failure of reading comprehension on your part. The report is a referral for impeachment. It's effectively the DoJ saying, "we cannot indict the president, but you should impeach him". If all you get from this document is "a big detour sign", I don't think you're paying attention.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

let's be clear here - the Muller report may well be the single most damning document we've ever seen published on a presidential administration, other than perhaps the Nixon tapes. At the most basic level, it's Muller telling Congress, "The reason we didn't indict is because it's not our place." It is essentially a referral to congress for impeachment.

Here is a quote from the article you linked, written by Yoni Applebaum:

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The redacted version of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report released on Thursday runs 448 pages. But its most important implication can be summarized in a single sentence: There is sufficient evidence that President Donald Trump obstructed justice to merit impeachment hearings.

Here is a quote from the primary source, written by Robert Mueller:

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Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough examination of the facts that the President did not commit obstruction of Justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent present difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.

Now the reasonable way to interpret this passage, which is a summary of the second half of the Mueller report, is that it is a bipartisan nothingburger — neither side got the vindication it was hoping for. Mueller is simultaneously refusing to conclude that Trump is guilty of obstruction AND refusing to conclude he is innocent of it. Mr Applebaum is peddling fake news; he might infer whatever he wants, but Mueller goes further than implying — he explicitly states he doesn't conclude Trump committed obstruction.

To be fair, the right-wing media is also covering this dishonestly. They're claiming the report fully exonerates Trump, when it explicitly doesn't. But because the conclusions of the report don't fit into either partisan narrative — indeed, instead of being the ending everyone was hoping for, it's not a conclusion so much as a refusal to arrive at one, an ellipsis where we were craving an exclamation point — both sides of the Fake News complex are repainting it as a victory instead of the tie that it actually is. A series of hoaxes which you have obviously bought into.

And it's one motherfucker of an ellipsis. The predictable result of this, unfortunately, is that the Mueller probe, while officially concluded, will continue in spirit for only Zeus knows how long, both as a endlessly repeating mantra of the partisan left and a denial thereof among the partisan right. It's very similar in form to the Comey statement regarding Clinton's email servers — while officially concluded that prosecution is not warranted, it is as if carefully constructed to give Trump-hating conspiracy theorists self-satisfying but toothless talking points for years to come, continuing and fueling the idiotic debate instead of giving it a mercy killing one way or another. Just as it was a case of either believing Comey was relunctantly covering for Clinton and lying in his conclusions OR believing Comey told the truth as he sees it, it is now a case of either believing Mueller is relunctantly covering for Trump and lying in his conclusions OR believing Mueller told the truth as he sees it.

But saying that Mueller is inviting impeachment requires a deliberate misreading of the 448 pages I've read (and which, let's face it, you haven't yet). The only way to conclude that Trump should be tried (by the Senate or otherwise) of obstruction of justice is to hold Mueller's (non-)conclusions in contempt while simultaneously upholding the evidence he cites to come to said judgment. Which is certainly possible — I did it myself with Comey. But it required me writing off Comey as a disingenuous sell-out — something you'll need to do to Mueller if you want to continue down this uncharted road. You can't say the evidence contained in the Mueller report is sufficient to prosecute simultaneously agree with Mueller's conclusion that the evidence in the Mueller report isn't sufficient to prosecute.

(You might excuse such lies — if they are indeed lies — by saying Comey/Mueller was getting his arm twisted by AG Lynch/Barr and/or President Obama/Trump, and thus the only option Comey/Mueller had was to give a forced conclusion with as much of the conflicting evidence as possible. However, again, that's merely excusing away the conclusions of the report to defend the character of its author, not agreeing with those conclusions.)

By the way, do I think Mueller is bullshitting on his recommendations? I honestly don't know yet. It's one thing to read a report, and yet another to scour it for tells, as if playing some telepathic game of poker with the author. Mueller is clearly not the buffoon Comey was (and probably still is) — when Mueller wants to be tough to read, he's tough to read. While it may be similar in form to Comey's concluding statement on the Clinton server, it's dramatically different in terms of substance — the report is a much higher quality, better-thought-out work product. I'll probably read it a second time — but not today.

LOL this fishing expedition is *still* going on? Get a life and a platform Democrats (besides communism) which you cant sell to normal people.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

LOL this fishing expedition is *still* going on? Get a life and a platform Democrats (besides communism) which you cant sell to normal people.

As I was saying above, Mr Deep, the report seems to have the intent of non-conclusion of the "fishing expedition" — that is, to extend it into perpetuity.

This is going to be like the JFK shooting for a great many people, for many years to come.

Yeah well Deep State wants it's grants of discretion and El Trumpo threatens all that.

Like that 40 million dollar investigation into nothingness.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

I really hate this framing.

Like, let's be clear here - the Muller report may well be the single most damning document we've ever seen published on a presidential administration, other than perhaps the Nixon tapes. At the most basic level, it's Muller telling Congress, "The reason we didn't indict is because it's not our place." It is essentially a referral to congress for impeachment. It shows us quite convincingly that the attorney general has been lying about his job for weeks in fairly brazen ways; that the press secretary knowingly lied to cover for her boss firing Comey, and that Trump Jr. avoided indictment by being too stupid to prove malice. Even if we strip out anything even remotely illegal, it shows dishonesty and grift at a level basically unheard of in the executive branch.

Hey, did you know that Donald Trump ordered one of his underlings to fire Muller, and said underling simply didn't? That's horrifying both because it means that the president tried to follow in Nixon's footsteps (remember, the "Saturday night Massacre" essentially ended Nixon's presidency, because at that point republicans in congress could no longer excuse or ignore his behavior), but also because it means that Trump's subordinates are simply ignoring his instructions! There's your deep state, right there!

With all that in mind... How do you propose we "move on"? What, are we supposed to just ignore this? Treat business as usual, pretend that Trump is just a normal president, and that everything is fine?

How 'bout, instead, we unite around recognizing the utter batshit insanity going on within the Trump administration, oust this incompetent, corrupt buffoon, and move on from there?

Why should the left compromise when it's so clearly in the right?

And again your comparisons don't fit at all. Nixon was involved in and tried to cover up a crime. Trump defended himself against a confirmed hoax. I sincerely hope that Nancy is as delusional but sadly she's smarter than that and won't impeach. Good instinct, Nancy!

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

This is going to be like the JFK shooting for a great many people, for many years to come.

2 scoops, 2 JFK shooters, 2 terms :3

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

To be fair, the right-wing media is also covering this dishonestly. They're claiming the report fully exonerates Trump, when it explicitly doesn't.

I'd argue that they're much closer to the truth though. Remember, before the left moved the goalposts out of the stadium, this entire hoax was about Trump working together with Putin to commit crimes and being a treasonous bastard. He and his campaign got fully exonerated with regards to that. Now only obstruction is left and it's arguable at best. As you have read (we get it dude, you can read), it's impossible for Mueller to come to a conclusion because the situation is so unique. And if it ever came to a court case (it won't), Trump has more than enough plausible deniability to work with.

So to put it in numbers, the collusion hoax which makes up I'd say 80% of the entire thing concerning its importance and weight, was an absolute nothingburger. The obstruction sort-of-hoax, which makes up 20% of the entire thing, is 50/50 at best (best from TDSers point of view. So the whole thing is at a whopping 1 out of 10. It's not nothing but it's very close.

If you want to see what peak TDS looks like, this guy went on a 450 tweet rampage about how Mueller is wrong and there was actually collusion. Absolutely amazing. America should really focus on its mental healthcare problems.