ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

Without the Catholic Church we'd've had two thousand years to see if something else developed instead. Greco-Roman society would not have suddenly lost two thousand years of time to develop. That's why I said it's impossible to really speculate on where we'd be without Christianity - nobody can construct two thousand years of scientifically accurate alternate timeline.

It's just as possible that the Church presiding over hundreds of years of horrific squalor, terrorizing peasants with sordid tales of burning for eternity if they didn't obey their betters and actively working to ensure people didn't have the education or tools required to break the CHurch's grip on their brains, held society back for longer than it should have and we'd be in a significantly better place right now as it is that the Catholic Church is some sort of entirely blameless, crimeless Savior Thing that brought The Light of Civilization(TM) to the species.

Actually, no. It's vastly more likely that we'd be in a better place than it is for the Church to be a crimeless savior-thing. The Crusades were basically a medieval Holocaust, and really all the proof a girl needs that the Church does not, and never really has, acted in the name of 'God'.

Unless 'God' means 'secular power, territory, and the ability to demand "tithes" of an ever larger number of people what can't afford it' to you, I suppose.

The crusades were a defensive campaign to stop a certain group from conquering and subjugating the world into converting to their religion.

We know exactly what the world would be like without the crusades, no speculation required.

Go research what was happening in the world right before the crusades. Take a good look at a map, of what was conquered, and by who, right before the crusades.

The crusades are literally one of the best gifts the Catholic Church has given the world.

Wow.

Just...wow.

Wow.

If anyone ever doubted why I just don't hold with any sort of large, organized Official Church? Here you go, folks. Here it is. I can't really make it any plainer than this.

More blood is in the hands of Christianity than any other religion.

Every time I see people saying "it's our God given right to..." or something similar, I cringe. Christianity especially is an ingenious scam / system of control, but at some point it expanded out of control and its lies became truths. Religion is an acceptable existence when it's equal to a hobby or a lifestyle like vegetarianism, but no society ever should be built upon religious standards.

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1453R wrote:

Wow.

Just...wow.

Wow.

If anyone ever doubted why I just don't hold with any sort of large, organized Official Church? Here you go, folks. Here it is. I can't really make it any plainer than this.

I challenge you to go do some actual research on who was conquering and subjugating right up to before the crusades, start at around the 700's, and look at a map of conquest from that time till the start of the crusades.

If you did honest research, you'd be back here thanking the Catholic Church for the crusades.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

More blood is in the hands of Christianity than any other religion.

Every time I see people saying "it's our God given right to..." or something similar, I cringe. Christianity especially is an ingenious scam / system of control, but at some point it expanded out of control and its lies became truths. Religion is an acceptable existence when it's equal to a hobby or a lifestyle like vegetarianism, but no society ever should be built upon religious standards.

If we dont use a religious standard, then whoever has the power creates the standard, and if power changes hands, that group makes a new standard.

I understand people not liking religion, I just fail to see how letting power dictate standards is significantly better.

At least following the same religious standard creates stability.

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Khoranth wrote:

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1453R wrote:

Wow.

Just...wow.

Wow.

If anyone ever doubted why I just don't hold with any sort of large, organized Official Church? Here you go, folks. Here it is. I can't really make it any plainer than this.

I challenge you to go do some actual research on who was conquering and subjugating right up to before the crusades, start at around the 700's, and look at a map of conquest from that time till the start of the crusades.

If you did honest research, you'd be back here thanking the Catholic Church for the crusades.

Hold on a second here. I respect anyone's viewpoints and values, but you're definitely the one that needs to do or re-do some research on the crusades from a non-christian relatively neutral source(like a history book). As a psuedo-history buff, your view of the crusades are very skewed.

The Crusades were pretty much nothing but embarrassment for the Catholic church. Only the First Crusade was even remotely successful, and it was a very disorganized operation with voracious looting and killing done by Crusaders against Christian cities along the way because they were so poorly supplied. The aftermath included massacre of the locals in several of the cities they captured, plus all the Jews that accompanied the Crusade.

All the other Crusades were failures. They couldn't take back Jerusalem and it was just a string of crushing military defeats. At the very least, you should read up on the Fourth Crusade and see for yourself how thankful we should be for that.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

Every time I see people saying "it's our God given right to..." or something similar, I cringe.

Just want to point out, again, that in the context of a secular nation (US), “God-given” means that there is a higher authority than government. It is an important notion, as we’ve seen time and again the catastrophe that plays out when the lizardfolk assume absolute authority. It isn’t just important, it is essential that We The People have a higher standard of authority to hold our mortal superiors to.

“God” in this sense is not an admission of religiosity, but a metaphor for the tacit admission that we’re fallible and will fuck things up if left unchecked. “Given,” then, is not suggesting that (to borrow from 1453R) some Giant Invisible Space Man waved their magical hand and made it so, but that the right transcends man’s authority to restrict.

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CanHasPants wrote:

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

Every time I see people saying "it's our God given right to..." or something similar, I cringe.

Just want to point out, again, that in the context of a secular nation (US), “God-given” means that there is a higher authority than government. It is an important notion, as we’ve seen time and again the catastrophe that plays out when the lizardfolk assume absolute authority. It isn’t just important, it is essential that We The People have a higher standard of authority to hold our mortal superiors to.

“God” in this sense is not an admission of religiosity, but a metaphor for the tacit admission that we’re fallible and will fuck things up if left unchecked. “Given,” then, is not suggesting that (to borrow from 1453R) some Giant Invisible Space Man waved their magical hand and made it so, but that the right transcends man’s authority to restrict.

While I think you are correct in the meaning of the expression, I can assure you that some (lots of) people take it literally as it sounds. In that since they think it's a literal god gift, it can't be wrong, it can't be improved and it should never be questioned/challenged. A good example is with some of the second amendment zealous defendants.

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Khoranth wrote:

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

More blood is in the hands of Christianity than any other religion.

Every time I see people saying "it's our God given right to..." or something similar, I cringe. Christianity especially is an ingenious scam / system of control, but at some point it expanded out of control and its lies became truths. Religion is an acceptable existence when it's equal to a hobby or a lifestyle like vegetarianism, but no society ever should be built upon religious standards.

If we dont use a religious standard, then whoever has the power creates the standard, and if power changes hands, that group makes a new standard.

I understand people not liking religion, I just fail to see how letting power dictate standards is significantly better.

At least following the same religious standard creates stability.

No, it doesn't. Look at how fractioned Christianity is. Look at all those wars in the middle east between the various beliefs of Islam.

Religion divide people a lot more than it unite them.