So, Vaal pact nerf?

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shaunika90 wrote:

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grepman wrote:

what ? you can facetank all of his balls, beam and stand in degen as long as you're hitting him and leeching. thats literally any moron with enough damage and instant leech

well yeah you need to know the bullethell phase, but you can just read about it on wiki. you are grasping at straws here.

you can tank the slam with enough hit points

yeah, dotn forget to mention you need like 7-8k life at least for that to work.

lol so you want to make 4k life mathil rats nest build playing melee ?


lol at a melee toon getting 7k life needing 100ex. can you stop this pure nonsense ?

gotdamnit, this game used to be a game about defense. now people really think a melee build should top out at 6k hp no defenses and use vp while stacking all damage in the world huh

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grepman wrote:

10k armour and 10k evasion is not really an investment. Im talking about a real investment that requires sacrifice.

sounds to me you want to have cake (not die and feel close to immortal) and eat it too (kill guardians in 10 seconds or less). and I think you should NEVER be able to do that, one or the other.

this is why instant leech, as well as anything that comes close to it (looking at you slayer and leech rate multipliers in general) should rest in piss.

killing stuff fast is fun. watching them slowly die isnt. I play an ARPG to kill stuff.

sure you shouldnt be able to facetank stuff like minotaur slam, or shaper balls, but VP alone does not enable that.

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grepman wrote:

lol so you want to make 4k life mathil rats nest build playing melee ?


lol at a melee toon getting 7k life needing 100ex. can you stop this pure nonsense ?

gotdamnit, this game used to be a game about defense. now people really think a melee build should top out at 6k hp no defenses and use vp while stacking all damage in the world huh

my raider has belly, and life on literally all on his slots(even all of my jewels has 7% maxlife on it) and even getting 7k life on her would be a huge stretch, but maybe doable if i cut my damage by like 30-40% but then I wouldnt really be able to beat shaper's soft enrage in p3 tbh.

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grepman wrote:

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omgMajk wrote:

Don't let the account fool you, I have been around.

I know you have, hence me asking whether or not we have been playing the same game since 2013 and whether or not you remember average speed in 2013

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Investing in like 10k armour and 10k evasion is truly shitty, either you go all in and survive a few hits from a boss - but it takes 10 minutes to kill a guardian - or you go damage and can't take a hit at all.

10k armour and 10k evasion is not really an investment. Im talking about a real investment that requires sacrifice.

sounds to me you want to have cake (not die and feel close to immortal) and eat it too (kill guardians in 10 seconds or less). and I think you should NEVER be able to do that, one or the other.

this is why instant leech, as well as anything that comes close to it (looking at you slayer and leech rate multipliers in general) should rest in piss.

I remember how it was, that doesn't mean that I liked it. I have been behind every nerf this game has thrown at me except the HUGE es nerf. I could've taken that vaal pact didn't work on ES but all the other things was just overkill.

10k armour and 10k evasion is a significant damage drop, I can't kill guardians right now under 10 seconds and I can take like two stone drops before I gotta leech. It's sort of balanced unless you have 200ex. The problem isnt that vaal pact is broken, the problem is that without godly gear or very specific builds - you need vaal pact. So overhaul of life reg, maybe add the slayer's "life leech doesn't stop on full life" would be interesting, but I kinda think they will remove that aswell.

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shaunika90 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

ele buzzsaw raider is not dead from this change in the slightest, wtf are you smoking?
i'd wager ek nova and bv are not even remotely close to being dead either - but sure,, just keep throwing things out there.

I dont really see how it could handle minotraur chunking you for 60-70% of your hp with regular melee attacks without VP, even with VP if i mess up i get instakilled.

VP enabled tons of fun glasscannon builds

it might have made a couple builds OP, but then why not nerf those couple builds rather than all the fun glasscannon builds, none of which were particularly OP?

sure yeah, we can still make rigth side work, we'll just have to literally cut our damage in half.

the problem with VP is it made people lazy - HP is not viable as your only defense. i wouldn't even call it a defense.

minotaur is like the easiest guardian because he does just stand there and attack you - which you can evade/dodge/block/miss. if you're a raider, you can easily have avatar of the chase, which as long as you have onslaught you can very easily get 75% melee evasion chance with just a jade flask - no grace, hardly any evasion on gear etc. this is before dodge, blind, block, w/e else.
if you're a raider and minotaur hits you more than once every 2 seconds, you're doing it wrong.

when you do get hit, as long as you don't get one shot, you'll easily be able to leech back up to full without VP, and especially with this new VP.

also belly of the beast is vastly overrated - again it doesn't offer much in the defense category. there are many other chests that do a much better job giving you an effective life pool by providing solid defenses, instead of lacking defense and only giving around 600 hp

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xMustard wrote:

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shaunika90 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

ele buzzsaw raider is not dead from this change in the slightest, wtf are you smoking?
i'd wager ek nova and bv are not even remotely close to being dead either - but sure,, just keep throwing things out there.

I dont really see how it could handle minotraur chunking you for 60-70% of your hp with regular melee attacks without VP, even with VP if i mess up i get instakilled.

VP enabled tons of fun glasscannon builds

it might have made a couple builds OP, but then why not nerf those couple builds rather than all the fun glasscannon builds, none of which were particularly OP?

sure yeah, we can still make rigth side work, we'll just have to literally cut our damage in half.

the problem with VP is it made people lazy - HP is not viable as your only defense. i wouldn't even call it a defense.

minotaur is like the easiest guardian because he does just stand there and attack you - which you can evade/dodge/block/miss. if you're a raider, you can easily have avatar of the chase, which as long as you have onslaught you can very easily get 75% melee evasion chance with just a jade flask - no grace, hardly any evasion on gear etc. this is before dodge, blind, block, w/e else.
if you're a raider and minotaur hits you more than once every 2 seconds, you're doing it wrong.

when you do get hit, as long as you don't get one shot, you'll easily be able to leech back up to full without VP, and especially with this new VP.

also belly of the beast is vastly overrated - again it doesn't offer much in the defense category. there are many other chests that do a much better job giving you an effective life pool by providing solid defenses, instead of lacking defense and only giving around 600 hp

yeah, but here's my problem with stacking evasion, when i get hit by literally anything I drop like a fucking fly. and it's not like i can take it to 100%

if I went all out on evasion, even ditching belly etc, then sure minotaur wouldnt hit me as often, but the one time he would i'd 100% be dead, cos i'd have like 5k hp

I'd rather just go marauder then where every single node gives hp and run around with 8k life

or slayer where i'll still have the insane leech

cos I sure as hell wont fucking play miners,totems or summoners, because I hate those playstyles

then thats your own issue and own fault. going evasion doesn't mean everything one shots you - that myth has been going around this forum since the forum existed, but it rarely happens.

there are plenty of one shot abilities that one shot you even with 15k life - so whats the difference?

not everything will one shot you. and 99% of the things that will one shot you, one shot anybody else anyway.
damage avoidance has been the OP as far back as 1.0. it always has been, and still is. the issue with this game and why VP seems so necessary (which it is for most builds) is because of the damage spikes this game has - it is pretty unreal. we combat that with instantly getting full life again before the next hit.
you can do the exact same thing with damage avoidance. the more you have, the more time you have to get up to full life.

yes, you will still die once in awhile, just like everybody does. if you're playing hardcore, evasion is still viable, you just need a high enough life buffer to take a hit - which nearly every build always has anyway.

Well. I guess that means I should have gotten Acuities before I got my HH. Now speculation begins, Acuities doubled in price already, and the strategy I've been working on for the last month or two to get Acuities on Standard failed.

Gotta love the stock market bullshit aspect of this game.


EDIT: Forum seems broken, but apart from that the change is also welcome and I hope they rebalance spike damage.

HA HAAHH!!

Vaal Picnic finally gets the rework it's needed for forever! Time for the Dance of Supreme Satisfaction!

They even just straight-up did exactly what I figured they should and made VP a huge boost to conventional leech. like, word for word what I've been saying it needed to be, at least as a beginning point for balance. Double leech rate, double leech cap, no regen. Fuggin' called it.
I'm not sure why it's attached to the Duelist leech nodes now but hey, half the builds in the game already path to those anyways so...I suppose.

God, reading through this thread has been both infuriating and so, so invigorating. So many Vaal Picnickers convinced the game is going to be utterly unplayable now that they can't instantly leech 100% of their DPS back as health and then utterly ignore all other forms of defense. MAN it's gonna be awesome watching those guys flame out and die until they figure out how the rest of us have been doing it for years already!

I mean, just get a load of this stuff. You tell them "have you considered maybe stacking up some defense layers?" and they all go "WHAT YOU MEAN LIKE ARMOR OR EVASION THOSE ARE SHIT YOU'RE SHIT IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE BASIC WHITE PACKS WITHOUT VAAL PICNIC!"

Naah, nah guys! Well, no, Armor and Evasion are both things you can do, but nah. We mean stuff like dropping Stibnite flask clouds on things to cut their DPS in half, using Enfeeble to further debuff the hell out of their defenses, stack armor and flat damage mitigation a'la Fortify and such and Endurance charges, or stack evasion and Dodge/Spelldodge and Blind (and flat mitigation via Fortify, Kintsugi, Lightning Coil, and the like).

"BUT 1453! IF WE BUILD DEFENSES INTO OUR BUILD WE CAN'T DEAL 50M DPS! HOW DO YOU SURVIVE THE GAME WITHOUT 50M DPS AND INSTANT LEECH TO MAKE 50M DPS THE ONLY DEFENSE YOU NEED?! IT JUST CAN'T BE DONE!!"

Maan...it's like we've been telling people all along that GGG doesn't like the Speed Clear Meta, they're trying to slow the game down and address years of power creep so the top end of the end game is super challenging and takes real skill and effort to beat, and that maybe the game's supposed to actually be able to kill you if you don't pay at least some attention to it! Maybe we'll even see builds that don't leech as their sole form of sustain! I mean holy shit wouldn't that be a real wonder?

So good. So good. Keep it coming, Vaal Picnickers. The sound of your anguished cries of rage and denial is music to my li'l ears; the sight of your confusion and disbelief is a beautiful show indeed...

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1453R wrote:

HA HAAHH!!

Gotta say, that was a satisfying rant to read. And I pretty much agree; as vindictive as it sounds, it's gonna be fun to watch the people that think the game is impossible without vp squirm and cry.

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Shppy wrote:

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1453R wrote:

HA HAAHH!!

Gotta say, that was a satisfying rant to read. And I pretty much agree; as vindictive as it sounds, it's gonna be fun to watch the people that think the game is impossible without vp squirm and cry.

nobody said it's impossible, we'Ll just all go serker slayer totem and miner