So, Vaal pact nerf?

"investing in defence", like what? Dodge? Armour? Evasion? Block? You have to pick between doing any viable damage at all or having terrible rng def.

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have you tried investing in defense ?
have you tried making a toon that specializes in defense ?
have you ever realized that 6k hp is squishy as fuck for a melee build with no investment in defense ?

I ran a max block necro without vaal pact last league, the only thing that saved it was that shield. Aegis Aurora - the non-legacy version was unplayable. Char was immortal but couldnt do obas, shaper or uber atziri.

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grepman wrote:

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omgMajk wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

you can play fast and aggressive without vaal pact, literally the only thing you need it for is standing still in front of shaper and holding down your mouse button till the fight is over. Hopefully that isnt possible any more, if it is something else needs nerfed.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read today. There is no way to play fast and wreck things in melee range at the moment unless you have vaal pact or acuity. Espeically with reflect mobs spawning ontop of you when you clear. Leech without vaal pact is dead, it gives you absolutely nothing.

you are confusing playing fast and aggressive with facetanking everything and not paying attention to reflect or mob types (white skellies or shaper who gives a fuck) or incoming damage (basically you can close your eyes and as long as you hit SOMETHING and leech you dont have to worry about anything)

those two are not the same, were never the same and will never be the same.

I dont even pay attention to reflect mobs and I dont play vaal pact tbh. I just charge into any pact of monsters and obliterate them, never die to reflect, I never get bursted down, never give a shit about incoming damage, just slam through maps pack to pack with shield charge then facetank the boss at the end. I play exactly the same way vp builds play except I cant stand in a shaper beam and just leech tank it, Id have to move out of it. When it comes to just regular maps? Why would u ever need vp unless you are a lightning spell with reflect issues?

I think this is like the life issue. Before the recent changes people were saying life builds were not viable, its impossible, you need ci to play and if they nerf ci they need to readjust the entire game because life builds literally dont work. They deleted ci and what happened? They didnt rebalance the game, everyone went life and there were no issues with that. Everyone who was playing a lot of life builds before the change were there saying you people are mental, life is fine, you just roll a life build and smash through the entire game no problem, and they were right, you didnt need ci to do anything. You dont need vp, people are playing just about everything without vp and absolutely trashing the game like its a joke, the idea that they would ever die to white/blue/yellow mobs in maps is complete lol, the game is just faceroll easymode for them.

The patch is gonna land, everyones gonna keep playing all the skills and playstyles they were mapping with before just like they did when they deleted ci. They dont need to rebalance monster damage, people dont need to go ranged or go totems, just make a proper character and charge headfirst into everything with your favorite melee skill no fks given.

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omgMajk wrote:

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Shppy wrote:

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omgMajk wrote:

How is 20% regen per SECOND helping you in a close melee situation when you get hit five-ten times a second?

Why are you letting yourself get hit five to ten times a second? And why are you not using any mitigation on it at all?

I get it, tactics are hard, layers of defense are hard, mashing your face into everything only wanting to care about hp and dps are easy. But how about trying something just the slightest bit less shallow and, idk, avoid the attacks? Build some armor or evasion? Prioritize the ranged enemies that can snipe you before dealing with the melee ones?

Armour is shit, evasion has no effect on big crits, going into a pack of mobs head on makes you get hit several times. Mitigation in this game is seriously sub-par. Ranged players can get away with it, melee characters can if they roll slayer or zerker.

Armor is far from shit while clearing, in fact that's when it's quite effective. It's against heavy hits that armor becomes less reliable, and spike damage from clearing doesn't reach high enough to make that happen to a reasonable amount of armor. It's mostly bosses where armor is shit.

As for evasion... it has no effect on big crits, what? Evasion gives you massive extra protection against crits, attacks have to pass a second accuracy check to confirm the crit, high evasion builds rarely get crit at all. Besides that, crits are a minor issue outside of powerful crits monsters and maps, base monster crit chance is low and their crit mult is 130%. The maps can be avoided if you have trouble with them, and dealing with the monsters goes back to the 'pay attention to the enemies' point.

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have you tried investing in defense ?
have you tried making a toon that specializes in defense ?
have you ever realized that 6k hp is squishy as fuck for a melee build with no investment in defense ?

not to mention your statement is factually incorrect;
lets see here a RF build

1) has no VP
2) is in melee range
3) somehow survives (and does so well) without VP

OH yay a marauder build that works without VP shocker.

good luck making a raider have over 6k hp without literally gimping your damage to the point it's no longer worth running raider. check out my character, the best I can make it is like 6.5k life, currently it's at 5.7k cos i took some points off of life because if stuff that kills me hits me I die from 6.5k as well as 5.7k, so I'd rather kill them first. going anything over that would either require some insane gear investment, or basically cutting my damage in half. neither of which sound particularly fun.

i play an ARPG to kill stuff, not to slowly widdle them down.


also, you in your own post literally disprove the need for a VP nerf

you got tons of non VP builds wrecking content (like RF, or totems, or GC miner and so on) so why nerf it agaiN? just cos some builds specifically made to destroy shaper can do it?


it's gonna be the exact same thing as it was with the ES nerf.
ES was too popular, now it's literally unusable on 99% of builds.

same thing will hapepn to VP

everyone will roll slayer or berserker in any selfcast/attack build.


if you want to nerf VP, you need to smoothen out the damage people take from unavoidable shit.

there's hundreds of stuff that oneshots you from offscreen even WITH VP, without it it's a nightmare.

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omgMajk wrote:

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Shppy wrote:

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omgMajk wrote:

How is 20% regen per SECOND helping you in a close melee situation when you get hit five-ten times a second?

Why are you letting yourself get hit five to ten times a second? And why are you not using any mitigation on it at all?

I get it, tactics are hard, layers of defense are hard, mashing your face into everything only wanting to care about hp and dps are easy. But how about trying something just the slightest bit less shallow and, idk, avoid the attacks? Build some armor or evasion? Prioritize the ranged enemies that can snipe you before dealing with the melee ones?

Armour is shit, evasion has no effect on big crits, going into a pack of mobs head on makes you get hit several times. Mitigation in this game is seriously sub-par. Ranged players can get away with it, melee characters can if they roll slayer or zerker.

youre gonna learn some things after this patch.

man people are so short-sighted.

it isn't always one way or another. theres lots of builds out there in this game, thus there are lots of ways to do lots of different things. this VP change doesn't do a whole lot. it won't completely demolish that many builds. the new location is more devastating than the new effect.

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xMustard wrote:

man people are so short-sighted.

it isn't always one way or another. theres lots of builds out there in this game, thus there are lots of ways to do lots of different things. this VP change doesn't do a whole lot. it won't completely demolish that many builds. the new location is more devastating than the new effect.

elebuzzsaw raider is 100% dead from this change

I'd wager EK nova/BV is also dead (which i planned to play in 3.1)

basically any attack based close range build from the right side of the tree is done for.



but hey, the actual OP stuff like serker DP and GC mines, or RF will be 100% untouched by this so yay for build diversity.

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omgMajk wrote:

"investing in defence", like what? Dodge? Armour? Evasion? Block? You have to pick between doing any viable damage at all or having terrible rng def.

lol at 'any viable damage at all' when most skills nowadays can comfortably clear red maps on a 4-link

you joined in january 2013. do you remember the game in 2013 ? you're too greedy not willing to sacrifice overkill damage for survivability and instead want to use a cheat code that gives you infinite instant sustain

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I ran a max block necro without vaal pact last league, the only thing that saved it was that shield. Aegis Aurora - the non-legacy version was unplayable. Char was immortal but couldnt do obas, shaper or uber atziri.

you do realize that investing in defense shouldnt make you immortal right ?

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youre gonna learn some things after this patch.

I've played plenty of character with or without vaal pact. I've tried most every skill in some form or another - most of them work to some extent but gimping damage for shitty unfixed def is never gonna make endgame fun.

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LowBudget780 wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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omgMajk wrote:

Facetanking "everything" has nothing to do with it. Obviously on bosses like Atziri and Shaper you should have to move.

and yet - you dont have to really move with instant leech against uber or shaper- well if you dont have enough hp to tank a slam you move during the slam phase- thats it. you tank everything else. well, you cant tank atziri double blast, but builds that go VP dont invest anything in defense so they usually have enough offense to down her before shes able to cast the FB

You are making it sound like any moron with VP can kill Shaper which is totally disingenuous. you still need to know the mechanics of the fight, VP isn't going to let you magically stand in his degen pools or survive his bullet hell phase, it won't even let you survive his slams unless you have enough HP which isn't even a VP issue. The only thing it can do if you have enough HP and damage is facetank the beam but most people with average gear aren't able to do that anyways.

it's extra hilarious when the build that can kill shaper with the least amount of effort and investment is probably GC miner which doesnt even run leech let alone VP