So, Vaal pact nerf?

Changes to VP does not change 2-10 second shaper kills. Players with optimized end game gear are only to melt end game content with leech, instant leech or no leech at all.

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xMustard wrote:

honestly this is going to be the best thing thats happened to the game.

speed clear meta is going to still exist, clearly, but we may not have quite as many 10m dps builds. why? because those builds were able to forget about actual defense. just stack hp and damage and as long as you're doing damage you're not dead.

for a while now our offense has been our best defense. but now we'll have to remember about actual defense. mitigation and avoidance. people will have to adapt to think about armor, evasion, dodge, block, mitigation, endurance charges, etc all over again instead of just "stack life stack life stack life".

now belly of the beast will drop in price and other chests will balance out in price. life will not be the only "defense" sought after any longer.

this being said - i think this could be a difficult league. it will take a bit for us to adapt to the change, and not only that but the game has been tweaked in order to "handle" the life/insta leech meta in a number of ways, and i think it'll take time for GGG to identify what is now going to become a problem and retweak it back to a normalized condition. *coughdoublebosshpcough*

Smartest post i've seen in the thread.I do lots of trading and meet players all day and after talking to most players about build and items and failed builds their is always one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb and that is that all people seem to really care about is DPS and defense is just extra.

Every person I talk to who has a failed build its always the same thing..."you mostly only cared about dps and did little defensively didn't you?". Ever try to convince someone they should give up 30k dps out of their 300k dps for some regen or health?...it's like pulling teeth.

The point is so many people always ask them selves "can I really afford to give up some dps for some defense?" when they should be asking "can I really afford to give up defense for dps?".

I do agree regen or life steal without Vaal Pact is a little insufficient however regen+life steal is very sufficient...sufficient enough that I can face tank shaper with it with ease while I have RF burning me.

It's time to put the di*k measuring compitition to rest and give up some dps for defense

I cannot believe some of the whining I'm reading in this thread. Obviously this is a good change. Even if there are problems with reflect it's fixable. Who in their right mind thinks the current state of VP is good game design xD xD xD xD ?

Evasion / armor / dodge / damage mitigation / other layers of defense are good and strong options. People just seemed to forget about them because all they needed was VP + dmg which wasn't just a good option. It was a broken - as in game breaking - option. If you can't play this game with an aggressive attack based build without VP you seriously lack some game knowledge.

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Stealthe wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

honestly this is going to be the best thing thats happened to the game.

speed clear meta is going to still exist, clearly, but we may not have quite as many 10m dps builds. why? because those builds were able to forget about actual defense. just stack hp and damage and as long as you're doing damage you're not dead.

for a while now our offense has been our best defense. but now we'll have to remember about actual defense. mitigation and avoidance. people will have to adapt to think about armor, evasion, dodge, block, mitigation, endurance charges, etc all over again instead of just "stack life stack life stack life".

now belly of the beast will drop in price and other chests will balance out in price. life will not be the only "defense" sought after any longer.

this being said - i think this could be a difficult league. it will take a bit for us to adapt to the change, and not only that but the game has been tweaked in order to "handle" the life/insta leech meta in a number of ways, and i think it'll take time for GGG to identify what is now going to become a problem and retweak it back to a normalized condition. *coughdoublebosshpcough*

Smartest post i've seen in the thread.I do lots of trading and meet players all day and after talking to most players about build and items and failed builds their is always one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb and that is that all people seem to really care about is DPS and defense is just extra.

Every person I talk to who has a failed build its always the same thing..."you mostly only cared about dps and did little defensively didn't you?". Ever try to convince someone they should give up 30k dps out of their 300k dps for some regen or health?...it's like pulling teeth.

The point is so many people always ask them selves "can I really afford to give up some dps for some defense?" when they should be asking "can I really afford to give up defense for dps?".

I do agree regen or life steal without Vaal Pact is a little insufficient however regen+life steal is very sufficient...sufficient enough that I can face tank shaper with it with ease while I have RF burning me.

It's time to put the di*k measuring compitition to rest and give up some dps for defense

Have either of you ever read any posts about why defense is such garbage? Armor mitigation is laughably terrible and evasion works until it doesn't. No amount of evasion stacking means anything because eventually you will get hit and you will die. No amount of armor stacking will help because even at 76% all resists and 7k hp you will still get one shot. A large number of builds actively seek out life nodes and I can't think of a life build that doesn't race towards the good ol' life wheel but it's not enough and it will never be enough. Even if you have hp and armor on every piece of armor it is still not enough to prevent getting one shot.

VP didn't prevent one shot either - so.....no, not every single character in the game is constantly getting one shot.

jesus you people exaggerate so much. yes i've read threads and reasons why armor and evasion are not adequate, problem is they're all wrong. what you just posted is completely wrong and untrue through 98.9% of all content.

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Nephalim wrote:

Game has taken a downward spiral since 2.6 and this is really the final nail in the competitive coffin.

I fear for this game's long-term survivability if they keep nerfing stuff without addressing the issues of mobs that hit too hard and must therefore be one-shot or they will one-shot you.

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1453R wrote:

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Shppy wrote:

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1453R wrote:

HA HAAHH!!

Gotta say, that was a satisfying rant to read. And I pretty much agree; as vindictive as it sounds, it's gonna be fun to watch the people that think the game is impossible without vp squirm and cry.

Oh yeah, I know I'm being a total dick.

It's awesome!

So... I looked at your char profile, no Shaper kills, 16 challenges, and a single character lvl 87 or higher. You... might not know as much about the game as you think you do.

Nah nah nah nah, see? It's super easy, everybody! We've all gotten it wrong! See, if you can't instantly be back at full life, within a frame or two after taking damage in the first place, then the game is LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE because everybody knows that the game is tuned to deal 96.74% of your health to you every three frames!

Armor is SHIT because you can't stack enough armor to facederp boss slams! It doesn't matter that facederping boss slams is not, and never was, armor's job and that the armor formulas are actually pretty good against mob DPS! You can't use armor to facederp slams or Shaper beams! And remember, mitigation does nothing because the game is specifically programmed to deal 96.74% of whatever your Health happens to be to you every three frames, no matter what sort of mitigation you have, so ONLY instant leech works!

Evasion is SHIT because you can't stack enough Evasion to never get hit at all, and if you ever do get hit you're gonna get one-shotted because Evasion builds NEVER bother stacking some physical mitigation or RNG Dodge-based avoidance under their entropic Evasion value! Besides, if doesn't matter what your evade chance is because the game is specifically programmed to deal 96.74% of whatever your Health happens to be to you every three frames, no matter what your Evasion happens to be, so ONLY instant leech works!

Layered defenses are SHIT because everybody knows that every layer of defense you add, even if it's just a Stibnite flask or a BlasFeeble set-up, removes 500k DPS from your build! Go above three or four layers of defensive mitigation and you go NEGATIVE DPS and start healing enemies instead of killing them! And even then, since the game is specifically programmed to deal 96.74% of whatever your Health happens to be to you every three frames, it doesn't matter what any of your defenses actually are or do because the game will simply break its own rules and modify enemy attacks and stats to do whatever it takes to deal exactly 96.74% of your maximum Health to you every three frames! So ONLY instant leech works!

It's all so simple! All you need to do to understand why the rework of Vaal Pact is going to DESTROY POE FOREVER is realize that the game breaks every single rule of logic, fairness, internal consistency, or common sense you can think of! The only reason we've ever been able to play PoE is because Vaal Picnic bravely fought its way through the twisted, demented basements of GGG's collective development hive mind and forced its way heroically into the game in order to give us all one faint, feeble hope of bringing Light to the eternal low-clearspeed darkness that is Wraeclast! But now that noble, virtuous Keystone has finally faltered...now, the horrible Darkness of having to build intelligently threatens to engulf the game once more...

Why didn't we understand before it was too late?!

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xMustard wrote:

VP didn't prevent one shot either - so.....no, not every single character in the game is constantly getting one shot.

jesus you people exaggerate so much. yes i've read threads and reasons why armor and evasion are not adequate, problem is they're all wrong. what you just posted is completely wrong and untrue through 98.9% of all content.

yeah, but that's the point.

defenses in general suck dick for a lot of builds, getting just enough of it not to get oneshot by anything, and then outhealing the rest, was basically the only good form of defense. now they wont be able to do that, so they'Ll stack defenses.

really, I still dont understand how VP is the biggest problem when GC miners kill shaper in like 15 C gear.

defenses don't in general suck dick - and it really doesn't take a lot of investment to get mounds of them stacking to a point where you're fine.

im not going to say mob damage isn't an issue in this game, because i believe it is. i think mob damage could be toned down by at least 50% in some instances (fucking kitava adds, wtf?) but it doesn't mean the game is unplayable. plenty of people still play HC and get past kitava, clearly.

again its like the language is everybody is one shot by every single thing. this is simply not true. yes there are one shot mechanics, but guess what? that will one shot you regardless of anything - and VP didn't even do anything against one shots anyway!! how can you leech your life back when you're dead? you can't.

mob damage is a little high to a point where it kinda trivializes hp regen and most of the time even pots - but this is where stacking damage avoidance rather than damage mitigation is highly advantageous.

it isn't like we have to sacrifice all of our damage to do it either. every single armor piece gives base defenses which we can augment with skill gems, FLASKS (this is a big one), passive tree, more skill gems.

i'd in general say we have way too many ways to mitigate and avoid physical damage, but not enough for spell damage.