Labs should not be mandatory.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

So why not have either an improve experience or a viable alternative, that would still make you "work" towards those points, but in a different but also more "familiar" way?

Alternatives diminish the importance of doing the content that was designed to be the challenge for the reward. It diminishes the design of the game, just because someone might not like how it plays.

Basically if they cant rofl stomp offscreen the challenge, they arent interested, which is the sad true state of poe currently.

Fun fact, I'm no "pro player", and probably I'll never be one, but I managed "Uber Labyrinth" on 4 characters at launch, without effort, and a few days ago, I ascended fully my 5th one.

Bringing in a boring, and yes, I do mean BORING, playstyle that is highly problematic, does not equal challenge. If traps wouldn't be trivialised by movement speed, or bypassed by movement skills, and you couldn't get "carries", your point would be perfectly and entirely accurate.

You don't need to "ROFL STOMP" entire screens to feel "powerful", and PoE holds very few actual challenges these days, but "Labyrinth" could and should become a whole lot more.

It should mark a pinnacle point on your journey, it should make you feel great that you overcame a "true challenge", and it should make you say "WOW, what a journey, I want to do that again!" and ask yourself "How will I ever manage it on my other characters?"...

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

So why not have either an improve experience or a viable alternative, that would still make you "work" towards those points, but in a different but also more "familiar" way?

Alternatives diminish the importance of doing the content that was designed to be the challenge for the reward. It diminishes the design of the game, just because someone might not like how it plays.

Basically if they cant rofl stomp offscreen the challenge, they arent interested, which is the sad true state of poe currently.

What Goetzjam says is absolutely false. The man with no honor returns to continue his crusade of arguing here on the forums for no purpose other than arguing. Goetzjam claimed he knew for a fact that I hadn't played PoE for much longer than I claimed and he called me a liar. He came to this false conclusion based on the fact that my account name had not been associated with any challenges number for a long time. I politely informed him that I had been playing standard to avoid as much loathsome labyrinth content as possible. I expected him to politely apologize for falsely calling me a liar. He didn't because he is a man without honor.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

It should mark a pinnacle point on your journey, it should make you feel great that you overcame a "true challenge", and it should make you say "WOW, what a journey, I want to do that again!" and ask yourself "How will I ever manage it on my other characters?"...

Please don't forget that the labs have to be HC viable for most decent builds.

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Turtledove wrote:

What Goetzjam says is absolutely false. The man with no honor returns to continue his crusade of arguing here on the forums for no purpose other than arguing. Goetzjam claimed he knew for a fact that I hadn't played PoE for much longer than I claimed and he called me a liar. He came to this false conclusion based on the fact that my account name had not been associated with any challenges number for a long time. I politely informed him that I had been playing standard to avoid as much loathsome labyrinth content as possible. I expected him to politely apologize for falsely calling me a liar. He didn't because he is a man without honor.

ok

"

Sa_Re wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

It should mark a pinnacle point on your journey, it should make you feel great that you overcame a "true challenge", and it should make you say "WOW, what a journey, I want to do that again!" and ask yourself "How will I ever manage it on my other characters?"...

Please don't forget that the labs have to be HC viable for most decent builds.

Those aren't and shouldn't ever exclude themselves... Especially when talking about "decent" builds, with "decent" items, and "decent" skills, and all governed by "decent" skillplay and a "decent" amount of attention payed to the game...

what decent build cannot do lab?

support aura-bot? that character should not be played alone - so team up (not that i like the concept of support damage multipliers but it is in the game so whatever)

other than that - what character cannot do it? ive 40 or 50 lvl90+ full-ascended characters and they range from meta stuff to Cold Snap. some where more difficult some were easier than others. big deal

was there a character i knew i couldnt do it? no. it is all about defences, movement and patience

most players nowadays skip the first and last from that list as these do not increase DPS in PoB

btw all these lab threads.. pretty sad, pretty sad

"

sidtherat wrote:

what decent build cannot do lab?

support aura-bot? that character should not be played alone - so team up (not that i like the concept of support damage multipliers but it is in the game so whatever)

other than that - what character cannot do it? ive 40 or 50 lvl90+ full-ascended characters and they range from meta stuff to Cold Snap. some where more difficult some were easier than others. big deal

was there a character i knew i couldnt do it? no. it is all about defences, movement and patience

most players nowadays skip the first and last from that list as these do not increase DPS in PoB

btw all these lab threads.. pretty sad, pretty sad

Whats even more sad is the lab haters that seem to think insulting people over a game is a good idea.

Hopefully he gets put in his place by support.

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sidtherat wrote:

what decent build cannot do lab?

My post was an answer to the "buff lab so that a small mistake can kill you" suggestion.

Btw I'd love such an area in SC, it just won't happen because of HC.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Whats even more sad is the lab haters that seem to think insulting people over a game is a good idea.

Hopefully he gets put in his place by support.

To be fair, only very few lab haters post such embarrassing stuff or put people on a list without their permission.

"

Sa_Re wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

what decent build cannot do lab?

My post was an answer to the "buff lab so that a small mistake can kill you" suggestion.

Btw I'd love such an area in SC, it just won't happen because of HC.

What post suggested that?

"Buff Lab so that a small mistake can kill you" works only if you have an offline experience available and/or your server stability is PRISTINE, and so are the optimisations so the game works on potatoes at fixed FPS cap...

Some of us asked, and still ask, for "worthwhile challenges" regarding "Labyrinth" and other content too, so that a sweet spot of "epicness" is reached, and a "fair" danger/reward ratio becomes a reality...

How else would you create a worthwhile challenge, even for "lab builds"?

"

Sa_Re wrote:

How else would you create a worthwhile challenge, even for "lab builds"?

Don't know, maybe by making you think - and providing real "puzzles" to be overcome? Maybe by having a few "scripted" encounters/events each run? Maybe by having monsters and traps work together against you, or at times allowing you to take DIFFICULT foes to traps and "dispose" of them that way with more ease? Maybe by forcing you to see "Labyrinth" as a "rite of Ascension" that means the YOU have to finish it without "cheating" if you want the points? And so on...

The possibilities are almost "limitless" and that is one of the reasons why I LOATH the current status of the so called "Labyrinth" - it really lacks it purpose, almost as much as single target namelocking melee skills...