Labs should not be mandatory.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

Unless you can give me a reason why making Labs optional in any number of ways would hurt you, then your protests made no sense.

You are in no position to demand anything from me to begin with.
You may ask politely, but thats it.

Furthermore your whole point is "I dont like it" which isnt an argument - thats just feelings.
Feelings aint no valid argument. Whats wrong with people, that they think their feelings entitle them to stuff...? I dont get it.


And as ArchAngel pointed out:
This game is about grinding. Thats another word for "We´ll make you work your ass off and you´ll like it!" - thats what you signed up for and thats what you are crying about. Do you see the irony?

And thats why gifting something as powerful as ascendancy point must not happen in this game.
Why you ask? Because you didnt work for it, thats why you dont deserve it!
Now you will start all over with buying Kitava kills - If you do that, you paid for it and therefore deserve it. Because you had to grind for the currency fist.


You want all that for free.
Not gonna happen. You will work your ass off or quit. Its that simple.
I told you when I said: "You have to come up with another solution that involves time, work and risk worth the reward." Thats the core concept of this game you want to get rid off and thats why Im opposing that proposal.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

"

Dear lord...

At this point you're not even reading anymore man...

I have said 3 times already, but I'll say it real loud this time: BUYING A KITAVA KILL TRIVIALIZES THE CONTENT AS MUCH AS MAKING LAB OPTIONAL.

start to read again.

The reason I say so, in case you're actually interested, is that it locks away something.
Kitava locks away your access to maps, lab locks the access to ascendancy.

What's so hard to grasp about this?

Then what the hell are we arguing about? So if you could pay someone to complete labs for you then you would think about quitting the game? Because that's how much this means for me and a lot of people. GGG's retention has dropped even after the last expansion. Would you consider stopping playing the game if they made labs optional?

Tbh, if they trivialize all content like you're suggesting to trivialize lab, yes, because there wouldn't be a game to be played, it would just generate OP lv100 builds for you, no effort required, maps? They won't even have monsters, just so that you don't have to be bothered by the oh, so loathsome act of farming.

Here's over a dozen suggestions for how labyrinth might be improved. If any of these were implemented I seriously doubt that anyone would be upset and complain that ascendancy has been "trivialized".
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216

How many complaints have I seen that GGG trivialized ascendancy when they significantly reduced the loathsome content in 3.0? ZERO!

"

Turtledove wrote:

How many complaints have I seen that GGG trivialized ascendancy when they significantly reduced the loathsome content in 3.0? ZERO!

Wanna know why?

It was necessary, it was too hard, it was too loathsome.

But with the recent changes, and the BIG nerfs to lab (especially the first 3), I'm seriously wondering if people just want a game that plays itself for you.

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

Unless you can give me a reason why making Labs optional in any number of ways would hurt you, then your protests made no sense.

You are in no position to demand anything from me to begin with.
You may ask politely, but thats it.

Furthermore your whole point is "I dont like it" which isnt an argument - thats just feelings.
Feelings aint no valid argument. Whats wrong with people, that they think their feelings entitle them to stuff...? I dont get it.


And as ArchAngel pointed out:
This game is about grinding. Thats another word for "We´ll make you work your ass off and you´ll like it!" - thats what you signed up for and thats what you are crying about. Do you see the irony?

And thats why gifting something as powerful as ascendancy point must not happen in this game.
Why you ask? Because you didnt work for it, thats why you dont deserve it!
Now you will start all over with buying Kitava kills - If you do that, you paid for it and therefore deserve it. Because you had to grind for the currency fist.


You want all that for free.
Not gonna happen. You will work your ass off or quit. Its that simple.
I told you when I said: "You have to come up with another solution that involves time, work and risk worth the reward." Thats the core concept of this game you want to get rid off and thats why Im opposing that proposal.

Ok, it's offical. You haven't read the goddamn thing I've written. I didn't say make labs free, I said make it optional in the same way Kitava is optional. That could mean I grind currency until I have enough to pay for a full lab run. They could implement any number of changes that could require just as much "work" to complete that would reward ascendance, that it takes to run labs at get them. But you are arguing against the potential solutions I've proposed and even ignoring the ones that would work. You aren't here to help, you are here to argue. Multiple people have pointed out to you difference ideas that would meet your requirments, but you are purposefully ignoring them. No reason to continue arguing with someone who's only goal is to just argue for the sake of arguing.

For everyone else, lets continue to discuss actual solutions. Thank you TurtleDove for providing that post that tied to many different solutions that would in no way trivialize the game.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

For everyone else, lets continue to discuss actual solutions. Thank you TurtleDove for providing that post that tied to many different solutions that would in no way trivialize the game.

That post is full of ideas that do that, trivialize how difficult it is in order to get the largest form of power creep ever introduced into this game. You know the best thing about AC points, you earn them. Yes you can pay someone to guide you, do the boss for you, but ultimately you still have to overcome various challenges, including traps in order to gain the benefit of the power.

But hey you know earning shit doesn't fit in this "version" of poe which is so fast paced and casual, so maybe they should remove the lab and just give you all 8 points when you make your character and better yet, give you the ability to respec any of your points at any time. Maybe even allow you to just change your class too, because all these are are decisions and choices you have to make along the way.


GGG already made normal and cruel lab an absolute joke to do. They already gave you multiple tools to make it easier for you if you have problems, but instead the best thing to do is complain about how your "forced" to earn power. God forbid you earn or do anything remotely challenging in this game.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

Unless you can give me a reason why making Labs optional in any number of ways would hurt you, then your protests made no sense.

You are in no position to demand anything from me to begin with.
You may ask politely, but thats it.

Furthermore your whole point is "I dont like it" which isnt an argument - thats just feelings.
Feelings aint no valid argument. Whats wrong with people, that they think their feelings entitle them to stuff...? I dont get it.


And as ArchAngel pointed out:
This game is about grinding. Thats another word for "We´ll make you work your ass off and you´ll like it!" - thats what you signed up for and thats what you are crying about. Do you see the irony?

And thats why gifting something as powerful as ascendancy point must not happen in this game.
Why you ask? Because you didnt work for it, thats why you dont deserve it!
Now you will start all over with buying Kitava kills - If you do that, you paid for it and therefore deserve it. Because you had to grind for the currency fist.


You want all that for free.
Not gonna happen. You will work your ass off or quit. Its that simple.
I told you when I said: "You have to come up with another solution that involves time, work and risk worth the reward." Thats the core concept of this game you want to get rid off and thats why Im opposing that proposal.

Ok, it's offical. You haven't read the goddamn thing I've written. I didn't say make labs free, I said make it optional in the same way Kitava is optional. That could mean I grind currency until I have enough to pay for a full lab run. They could implement any number of changes that could require just as much "work" to complete that would reward ascendance, that it takes to run labs at get them. But you are arguing against the potential solutions I've proposed and even ignoring the ones that would work. You aren't here to help, you are here to argue. Multiple people have pointed out to you difference ideas that would meet your requirments, but you are purposefully ignoring them. No reason to continue arguing with someone who's only goal is to just argue for the sake of arguing.

For everyone else, lets continue to discuss actual solutions. Thank you TurtleDove for providing that post that tied to many different solutions that would in no way trivialize the game.

You see, the things we're struggling to figure out is, what "potential solutions" have you actually made, apart from "make it optional".

You see, when saying "make it optional", you're not providing alternatives. You're saying "I don't want this, pls gib free points" because that's what optional means. "not needed"

You (and every other player) NEEDS to grind their ass off, in order to get the rewards.

I'm actually open to suggestions, I've seen some half decent ones in other threads, but all you've been doing is arguing, without actual constructive criticism, or feedback, or even logic.
All you've been saying is "but it's just like kitava". It isn't.

Now, like you've been threatening for the past few hours, either just quit playing, or start playing the actual game. You know, the game made by GRINDING GEAR GAMES (defo not a very subtle hint)

Just posted this in the other current Labyrinth Thread, I'll post it here as well.


People need to think for a bit at how GGG would remove Ascendancy points from the Labyrinth.


The easiest way to do this is to connect the points gained to Level. Next they will
1) Give the points every X Levels
2) Ensure you are getting the points later then they are available now
3) Ensure the last two points are "earned"

Here is a reasonable level structure.
Lvl 30
Lvl 40 (Normal Labyrinth lvl 33)
Lvl 50
Lvl 60 (Cruel Labyrinth Lvl 55)
Lvl 70
Lvl 80 (Merciless Labyrinth Lvl 68)
Lvl 90
Lvl 100 (Eternal Labyrinth Lvl 75)


But But we could connect it to game events!

Kill Kitava - Normal Labyrinth
Kill Kitava - Cruel Labyrinth
Complete Some Optional Map level Content: Generally Connected to Current Content - Merciless Labyrinth
Kill the Shaper - Eternal Labyrinth


I can guarantee that no one would want either of these two options.

No one would be able to get their Ascendancy points as easily and quickly as they can now.
Any builds that depend on the Ascendancy points would die as it would take too long to get all the points they need.


Wouldn't we just get them at the current levels we can get them now?

NO. Not happening. These points have to be earned and deserved. This is GGGs stance. They will stick to it.


I repeat: Do not ask to get the Ascendancy points removed from the Labyrinth. There is no alternative (that is a realistic expectation) that you will like better.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

For everyone else, lets continue to discuss actual solutions. Thank you TurtleDove for providing that post that tied to many different solutions that would in no way trivialize the game.

That post is full of ideas that do that, trivialize how difficult it is in order to get the largest form of power creep ever introduced into this game. You know the best thing about AC points, you earn them. Yes you can pay someone to guide you, do the boss for you, but ultimately you still have to overcome various challenges, including traps in order to gain the benefit of the power.

But hey you know earning shit doesn't fit in this "version" of poe which is so fast paced and casual, so maybe they should remove the lab and just give you all 8 points when you make your character and better yet, give you the ability to respec any of your points at any time. Maybe even allow you to just change your class too, because all these are are decisions and choices you have to make along the way.


GGG already made normal and cruel lab an absolute joke to do. They already gave you multiple tools to make it easier for you if you have problems, but instead the best thing to do is complain about how your "forced" to earn power. God forbid you earn or do anything remotely challenging in this game.

Come on, goetzjam.

I'm as sad as anyone that GGG took the easy road, and instead of improving the "Labyrinth", they degraded it to an underwhelming status, but some of the proposals on the other "Labyrinth" thread have nothing to do with "trivialising" it as content...

The "Labyrinth" would be a worthy content and serve as a "rite of passage" only if it would actually pose a challenge, and be a mandatory experience, that is random for each try for the Ascendancy points. It should also be a lot more harsher for the carries, either via danger posed by foes, or via grind/reward ratio...

And IT should be EPIC and MEMORABLE. A core aspect of PoE.

But the current iteration leaves a sad taste, as it tones down the "Labyrinth" and for the "untoned" content, uses bribes to make players "enjoy" it...

So why not have either an improve experience or a viable alternative, that would still make you "work" towards those points, but in a different but also more "familiar" way?

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

So why not have either an improve experience or a viable alternative, that would still make you "work" towards those points, but in a different but also more "familiar" way?

Alternatives diminish the importance of doing the content that was designed to be the challenge for the reward. It diminishes the design of the game, just because someone might not like how it plays.

Basically if they cant rofl stomp offscreen the challenge, they arent interested, which is the sad true state of poe currently.