Tackling the limitations of PoE: Part One - The "Labyrinth"

Due to a request of "The Almighty Ruler" (thanks for your help making me start my first Feedback and Suggestions topic Charan) I will encompass in a a few "huge walls of text" all my gripes and suggestions regarding PoE and it's content, by starting with the "Labyrinth".

I encompassed my feelings regarding PoE state in another comment so I'll start by restating it:



Due to several decisions, I'm sorry to say, the "Labyrinth" doesn't feel like an "Labyrinth" and they should change that.

Paths

They should make it have at least 3 correct paths to lead towards the last Aspirant Trial. If the areas have to be reduced in size, they could compensate by increasing their variety, so each path should feel like a different experience. If they also intertwine the paths, it will be even better.

It will certainly improve the "Labyrinthic" feeling and make the content deserving of the name, instead of this shallow linear "get from start to finish in a mostly straight line", that we experience now.

In that case the hidden passages would be used as ingenious ways to advance you on the map and feel like worthy of your time to search them.

Traps

Right now, certain areas and trap gauntlets have problems regarding low visibility, and if they want to encourage the tackling of "Labyrinth" even on Hardcore, those issues have to addressed, even if further improvements are placed aside.

We have the problem of the "cheese" by spamming of MS skills/Quicksilver potions that I'm sorry to say, renders a large portion of the trap gauntlets null, so a few improvements could be made in making those trap layouts more complex would equal the scale.

There should be ways of bypassing the traps, and my first proposal in this regard, are master switches. I think that the best way to implement master switches is by having them heavily defended by difficult encounters (multi modded essence monsters come to mind) and making them clear a path through specific trap gauntlets in that area or another linked area.

My other proposal concerns destroyable traps, so that players could make their own path through the trap gauntlets at the cost of time. They could make them specific to certain areas, an entire correct path towards the last Aspirant's Trial and also implement them everywhere if they feel like it.

It was disheartening to have only certain traps "hidden" on a timed basis, instead of properly destroyed, when you have the power to kill every enemy that the game throws against you. That is plain wrong. And we have destroyed traps sprinkled around the derelict "Labyrinth" as a further "slap in our face".

To destroy a trap, you should reach a few minimal conditions - a set value of xx hits of xxxK amount of damage - and have those tuned so you'll get diminishing returns for over-damaging them.

Case in point let's take a square of spike trap in Uber "Labyrinth". It should request a minimum of 60 hits of >50K damage/s or 20 hits of >150K damage/s and have those values adapted so you end up with a similar amount of time to destroy a trap in a fair way, so even if you hit very hard or very fast, you wouldn't get an upper hand.

They have to make destroyable traps balanced from a point of minimum requirements by tuning number of hits and damage to give diminishing returns for hitting and destroying them from a time perspective to still preserve the spam of MS skills and Quicksilvers as the fastest way to finish the "Labyrinth" when running for the "speed ladder" (more on that later).

They should always increase by 100% the requirements for each member so you end up having preserved the same difficulty regarding the destructible traps no matter the number of players in a party - so they all work in sync to take down a piece or spend exponentially more time to clear more parts.

Regarding summoners there are certain minimum threshold to be reached so DPS + number of hits should take that into account although due "dumb" + "numerous" mechanics there should be a rework regarding damageable traps and minions interactions.

Regarding AoE concerns, it's simple, make one trap be the one damaged by AoE effect in a way similar that Ice Crash is not allowing overlapping of damage areas, so no matter your AoE, you only damage a trap at a time.

Traps & monsters

I never understood their stance that monsters should be separated from traps, when they could have had them intertwined so you pay attention at the enemies, and the traps in preparation for the epic fight versus Izaro. Not to mention the missed opportunities regarding the tactical advantages that a complex trap gauntlet would give you versus a difficult enemy.

I do understand that they are constraint by the basic AI that the game uses, but there are improvements that could be taken to give a better experience to players even in this regard.

One solution would be to have some of the difficult enemies great to fight in trap gauntlets - Exiles + multi essence mobs, for example - that when taking sustained trap damage they should try and find a spot where they're not going to get damaged by traps, and also keep their focus on getting you killed.

Another would be to also find a way to make traps do percentage damage to monsters (if they don't do so already) so you'll have normal ones surviving 5 hits from a spike trap, magic ones 8 hits, rare/unique ones 10 and adjust those values to seconds for movable traps. If necessary even tune down or up the aggressivity of the monsters that you encounter in the trap areas.

Scripted encounters/situations

A few scripted situations will exponentially increase the "Labyrinth" experience, as long as they are in a set amount for one iteration.

They should also be carefully added by the map generation mechanism so you never have more than 3 during one path to final Ascendancy Trial. You don't have to overuse them, but just sprinkle them at times, so you'll "wow" your audience.

One such example would be area where upon passing a door your set in an ad hoc arena with a variety of difficult encounters, different each time.

And another could be an area where after you passed through a long corridor, you have monsters ambush you from behind with an wall closing in on you and threatening to flat you.

They could be just as rare as your chance to meet a "Labyrinth Trial" when running higher tier maps, and once experienced they don't have to pop up for a few map generations at least - you experience the "advancing wall" area, you'll might re-experience it post xx amount of runs/ x amount of days.

Ascendancy Points

One of the best way to improve the handling of the Ascendancy points, that are build defining, and "power creep" at it's best, is the fact that they should be given for a substantial effort from the players behalf.

So that means certain series of improvements should be implemented.

First of all, for gaining the Ascendancy points, the "Labyrinth" layout should be completely random generated. No "but" and "no questions asked". Their impact on your character is so defining that "Labyrinth" has to be experienced from start to finish.

Completing it will give you the right to run the daily layout, used for the "speed run" ladder. This layout could keep it's map generation fixed, as it would provide "enchant" runs also, but with a small further suggestion, the chest dropping max tier crafting bases shouldn't be in the boss chamber but in a harder to reach and heavily protected location, so you should at least work further if you want to "have your cake and eat it too".

In contrast, for the random layout you should get some bonuses for fully clearing areas and finding hidden stuff.

For parties there should be a limit of 2 additional Ascendancy points from the player with the lowest number, so carries should be encouraged but in a fairer way. Izaro should also have a bonus due to the party having a carry and carried players.

The most important part would be that the Aspirant Trial fights start after all party members enter the fighting arena so even the carried players at least run for their life if not also fight Izaro.

In the end, I would further enjoy "Labyrinth" if it provided the danger/reward ratio for all it's areas just as it does for the Izaro fight, but to do so, there has to be an increase in dangerous situations as those make the difference between failure or success, and improve your experience and attachment to your character - PoE is an ARPG with Hack and Slash valences, but it should make you care more about your in game avatar, as it has one of the best stories and complexly developed game world around.

With all the suggestions above, the "Labyrinth" should be something more akin to the great potential that resides in it, so just imagine the "Labyrinth" with an area where you're required to flip a protected master switch to deactivate a complex trap gauntlet in another area, an area where you find a hidden passage that advances you on the map, and area where upon passing a door your set in an ad hoc arena, and an area where after you passed through a long corridor, you have monsters ambush you from behind with an wall closing in on you and threatening to flat you. All leading to the the first Aspirant trial.

That would be something to behold...

I like most of these ideas! Sounds fun.


How many parts might we be expecting? Will they all be focused on increased difficulty, or perhaps some other themes as well?

"

Vipermagi wrote:

It's a rare day where a Labyrinth thread is worth reading. Thumbs up.

Thanks, coming from you it means a lot.

"

SudianX wrote:

I like most of these ideas! Sounds fun.


How many parts might we be expecting? Will they all be focused on increased difficulty, or perhaps some other themes as well?

Thank you for your interest. I will consider further parts to offer "Feedback and Suggestions" to all other aspects that do feel underwhelming regarding PoE. One will be tackling the difficulty issue, one will address trade improvements, and the last will try to offer a few impressions regarding improving certain playstyles and skill interaction.

All that I would like from GGG's side is to take a look and think about implementing at least some of my ideas in a way that will further improve the game experience for all, and make us care more about our in game avatars.

No more, no less.

"

The_Reporter wrote:

All labyrinth threads are worth reading. This one is no exception.
Have a read, GGG.

Spoiler

Unfortunately, the forum trolls will be along soon to crap in it.

I actually like most of the suggestions in this thread, except for the last part where it said the layout would be completely random every time. How are you supposed to find Argus if the layout keeps changing repeatedly? I'm open to switching around where some of the doors lead within the same room, but not the layout of the room itself or the lab as a whole. Not all of us are incredibly fast and can find Argus/kill Izaro in 3-10 mins.

"

Slicer9875 wrote:

I actually like most of the suggestions in this thread, except for the last part where it said the layout would be completely random every time. How are you supposed to find Argus if the layout keeps changing repeatedly? I'm open to switching around where some of the doors lead within the same room, but not the layout of the room itself or the lab as a whole. Not all of us are incredibly fast and can find Argus/kill Izaro in 3-10 mins.

Yeah also it's great that the layout is the same each day so people can compete about it.

Yeah, I shouldn't have skimmed the last part. I guess it could work with a slight adjustment to the way points are calculated now so you don't get duplicate points when running a lab. If you're in a party, you should probably be in the completely random layout though, putting a bit more pressure on the person performing the carry to be able to cope with any particular mechanics.