Add ability to skip lab and buy points

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Gosen wrote:

Without spell echo/multistrike attacking in this game is too slow and not fun at all. Everything kills you because you have no gear and gems, it's not difficulty but design.

So are you suggesting to give players all power from the start and remove completely feelings of achieving to build a character ?
Then everybody would be bored much faster and the game would die, GG.

I saw one game that seemed like that years ago : Guild Wars.
I was playing DaoC back then.
My first reaction was : "Wtf are all those pointless shinny effects and that very fast paced gameplay from the start ? Isn't your character starting from nothing, levle 1 ?? Looks like BS to me, no way I'm starting this game ever, it just looks like a way to attract kids that want instant gratification"

Thanks god, PoE isn't like that.

There will obviously be resistances penalties with the 10 acts, it would be completely stupid to remove then completely, it would remove the very last bit of needing to care about stuff iy one has one or two uniques.

Anyway, you seem very salty.
Btw, you are spitting on PoE Legacy challengesm playing SC, ES + Vaal pack with a crit caster ... wow.
How much did your shaper run cost you ?

I'm just saying new game is not very appealing and lot of new players are giving up quickly, because gameplay is kind of clunky.

I payed 10c for Shaper, I play my own build, no meta shit, and it's waste of time to gather t16 map and then go for Shaper if I can buy it in one minute, so everyone does. It's not challanging, just rng based bs. I spam chat whole day to get last warband kill. Well, that's challanging... mentally.

Why don't you play SSF then ? Not enough time ?

And you're not exactly playing meta, but that kind of archetype is still kinda at the top of the pyramid (not saying that it's bad to play it, just that there is more challenging).
The game can be challenging, it's up to you.
I honestly thought that Shaper kills would be more expensive than 10c ...

I personally like to grind myself and then I feel challenge by the game overall.


And maybe I just don't like the recent mentality "I want it all and I want it now" (quoting a great man here of course) in the world of gaming and games that just want to appeal to this, it just seems that those just want to make money instead of providing quality content to me.
But that's just my opinion of course.

"

MajmuneGru wrote:

Would never think someone would go that low. You're a prime example what's wrong with this world in general, speaking out of video game realm now. Please restrain yourself from ever conversing with me or mentioning me in a post. Thanks!

Before you want to tell me what game I can and can't play, and now you want to dictate who I can and cannot reply to?

Get over yourself. You tell someone that has contributed literally hundreds of dollars to the development of a game to "go play something else" because their opinion varies from your own, meanwhile, you have nothing to show for contributions of your own other than snarky sarcasm?

Did you ever consider that your posts have been nothing other than poo-poo others ideas while contributing nothing yourself?

Come up with ideas that address everyone's issues, maybe with compromises and maybe people will take you a bit more seriously.

How do you propose to fix lab so that everyone can enjoy it? Do you actually have any ideas on it?

"

Fruz wrote:

So are you suggesting to give players all power from the start and remove completely feelings of achieving to build a character ?
Then everybody would be bored much faster and the game would die, GG.

I saw one game that seemed like that years ago : Guild Wars.
I was playing DaoC back then.
My first reaction was : "Wtf are all those pointless shinny effects and that very fast paced gameplay from the start ? Isn't your character starting from nothing, levle 1 ?? Looks like BS to me, no way I'm starting this game ever, it just looks like a way to attract kids that want instant gratification"

Thanks god, PoE isn't like that.

There will obviously be resistances penalties with the 10 acts, it would be completely stupid to remove then completely, it would remove the very last bit of needing to care about stuff iy one has one or two uniques.

Anyway, you seem very salty.
Btw, you are spitting on PoE Legacy challengesm playing SC, ES + Vaal pack with a crit caster ... wow.
How much did your shaper run cost you ?

The games you are using to compare with this one are interesting. Both being mmo's and not strictly arpg.

An apples to apples comparison would be diablo 2, titan quest, torchlight, et al.

D3 tried to change arpg to arpg-mmo and it was a massive failure. Ask yourself why Diablo 2 was so popular.

It's about the bling, but more importantly, it's about the random nature of getting that bling. Slowly climbing the hill unless you are hardcore 24/7 is a World of Warcraft concept, not a diablo concept.

I think people are ok with ramping difficulty and with challenges and even some gated content. However, content gated behind timesinks is not something that comes from arpg side of things.

We don't need this game to become wow.

What I would like to see is better crafting options instead of spending currency. I'll be posting that idea as it's own post.

I didn't expect anything more intelligent than what you said right there.

"

ewolow:
How do you propose to fix lab so that everyone can enjoy it? Do you actually have any ideas on it?

What is there to fix? I find the lab fine and enjoyable, or that's too complicated to understand?

"

MajmuneGru wrote:

What is there to fix? I find the lab fine and enjoyable, or that's too complicated to understand?

Meh, some of us find the so called "Labyrinth" an offense to the term "Labyrinth" as it has only a linear path to follow and is touted as a counter to the "speed meta" with "well designed trap gauntlets" while encouraging with ladder the "fastest" run, without even accounting for fully clearing every goddamn room, and is not even a mandatory solo experience...

If it had an intrincate layout, with a daily map, with a different experience for everyone, and with epic "shit your pants" fights/events, that would have made the "Labyrinth" term justice, not this failed attempt at not even a maze...

If the "Labyrinth" had more interesting requirements regarding gameplay quests, at least mechanicaly towards an Prince of Persia experience, or God forbid true RPGs like Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment, instead of the boring sequences of traps upon traps that aren't even synergising with monsters or could be better used against them, just makes the design so lacking, that the wasted potential unfortunately feels overwhelming, too bad about the Izaro fights, which are really worthwhile...

There are also a lot of players that don't like the "Labyrinth" as it is now, with stability problems, no checkpoints on Softcore just to illustrate a more Hardcore experience - if we truly wanted to play Hardcore, we would have chosen so at the character creation screen - with boring sequences of trap gauntlets more prone to kill you instead of the monsters in an ARPG, even if only due to networking problems, indestructible traps although all could be made at least destructible for a time and a linear path towards unfortunately some of the best fights of the game...

There are a lot of things to fix regarding "Labyrinth", but lets have as an alternate path to Ascendancy, Izaro fights in an Arena, making him a bit tougher, and requesting 6 fights instead of just 3, for Ascendancy points only, and no "one shot" against the boss scenarios, so you would experience all the bells and whistles of the fights, and while we're at it, until the stability of the "Labyrinth" becomes reliable, make each Offering for Uber Lab last for 3 runs/at least double the dream trials occurence...

PS: When you have someone as TheAnuhart complaining about a bad decision regarding the Zana mods that mirror the league mods on Standard, without the additional leaguestone system, and GGG's doesn't even give a @#%= about answering it, although they could have kept the mods different on League/Standard as they did before (they did it during Torment/Bloodlines), that feels a lot worse than the sad state of affairs regarding the way they managed the leaguestones exploit...

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

What are you comparing lab to when you say it takes too long? It's a full expansion, comparable to an act. It is definitely short compared to any of them and it's 100% optional. You should not get that for free just for leveling. That's ridiculous.

Please show me a build in all the build lists that has ascendancy as optional. Anyone who says this is full of it regardless of your feelings if it should be mandatory for points or not.

The only thing, literally the ONLY thing lab related that bothers me a little bit are the trials themselves; Uber ones specifically. Chances without 820, it will take you a good day of mapping (I mean good 4-5 hours, usually prolonged to 10 if you're stubborn or out of luck) to find all 6, with still no other way to know which ones you're missing without finding a trial itself (let's be real, the names are weird and un-memorable).

The lab for me still gives me the same feeling I first entered it. It felt it was a lab, I felt I was lost in it, and when I completed that thing on Normal difficulty long time ago I ascended, and it was such a nice feeling. My character got insanely stronger all of a sudden. I applaud GGG for bringing thing such as it into a video game; it took some balls knowing some people won't like it. I am not saying it cannot get better, but lab as it is right now represents what it should be. It is dynamic, even if you're farming it, it still changes on the same day albeit a little bit.

And the lootplosion in the end makes it worthwhile. If they plan to make it easier to get the grind for 40, to get the loot, to get the Uber enchants, then they need to seriously rebalance the stats accordingly. The thing you people ask for isn't a simple "oh it's too long, make it shorter"; all that brings with itself a lot of other points which nobody in this topic has touched.

"

PS: When you have someone as TheAnuhart complaining about a bad decision regarding the Zana mods that mirror the league mods on Standard, without the additional leaguestone system, and GGG's doesn't even give a @#%= about answering it, although they could have kept the mods different on League/Standard as they did before (they did it during Torment/Bloodlines), that feels a lot worse than the sad state of affairs regarding the way they managed the leaguestones exploit...

I've been saying that since the announcement, Zana's usage on Standard has gone to 0.

"

MajmuneGru wrote:

The only thing, literally the ONLY thing lab related that bothers me a little bit are the trials themselves; Uber ones specifically. Chances without 820, it will take you a good day of mapping (I mean good 4-5 hours, usually prolonged to 10 if you're stubborn or out of luck) to find all 6, with still no other way to know which ones you're missing without finding a trial itself (let's be real, the names are weird and un-memorable).

The lab for me still gives me the same feeling I first entered it. It felt it was a lab, I felt I was lost in it, and when I completed that thing on Normal difficulty long time ago I ascended, and it was such a nice feeling. My character got insanely stronger all of a sudden. I applaud GGG for bringing thing such as it into a video game; it took some balls knowing some people won't like it. I am not saying it cannot get better, but lab as it is right now represents what it should be. It is dynamic, even if you're farming it, it still changes on the same day albeit a little bit.

And the lootplosion in the end makes it worthwhile. If they plan to make it easier to get the grind for 40, to get the loot, to get the Uber enchants, then they need to seriously rebalance the stats accordingly. The thing you people ask for isn't a simple "oh it's too long, make it shorter"; all that brings with itself a lot of other points which nobody in this topic has touched.

"

PS: When you have someone as TheAnuhart complaining about a bad decision regarding the Zana mods that mirror the league mods on Standard, without the additional leaguestone system, and GGG's doesn't even give a @#%= about answering it, although they could have kept the mods different on League/Standard as they did before (they did it during Torment/Bloodlines), that feels a lot worse than the sad state of affairs regarding the way they managed the leaguestones exploit...

I've been saying that since the announcement, Zana's usage on Standard has gone to 0.

The "Labyrinth" doesn't feel as a "Labyrinth" if you have a bit of common sense, and just watch the map and use the directions - if the map suggests an exit to 2-3 different rooms, you will find those exits in the general direction represented on the map - but to have a sole path to advance through just renders the term null - if there where at least 2-3 "correct" choices that always end up with Izaro, we wouldn't pay attention to this...

The "Labyrinth" as a journey to Ascension has it's merits, it's one of the great expansions that showed that PoE could still feel dangerous, mysterious and new, but that feeling fades as soon as you start ascending a larger numbers of characters. It feels monotonous to have a larger degree of danger by navigating trap gauntlets instead of fighting monsters - and the multi essence mobs on moderately rolled maps already feel as dangerous or even more dangerous than bosses - and it just presents missed opportunities as I previously illustrated.

The "Labyrinth" should have been a mandatory solo ride all along, as it's okay to pigeon hole us towards certain defensive mechanics (Atziri/Uber Atziri already did it for a long time before), but to have traps that feel more deadly than monsters for screens at times, seems severely lacking.

The best change that would preserve the "Labyrinth" as it is, would be to either implement master switches for the trap gauntlets, protected by more difficult monsters, or have a threshold (50K damage hitpoints and 30 hits for example) that makes them destructible or stops their action for at least 5 seconds, and have those placed in a certain way that you could actually clear a path at the expense of speed... That way you couldn't rush your way through, but you could still manage all the killable content while tactically advancing through the traps...

"Uber Labyrinth" should get a lot more intricate and longer, but with a better proportion regarding trap gauntlet density and monster density...

"

RannXeroxx wrote:

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

What are you comparing lab to when you say it takes too long? It's a full expansion, comparable to an act. It is definitely short compared to any of them and it's 100% optional. You should not get that for free just for leveling. That's ridiculous.

Please show me a build in all the build lists that has ascendancy as optional. Anyone who says this is full of it regardless of your feelings if it should be mandatory for points or not.

Pretty much any build prior to Ascendary's existence. Remember that the passive tree as it is now was first designed to take you to endgame content with each of the characters getting a much needed class revamp around the time Scion was coming out to help further define their roles, and the Ascendaries were later thrown on top of that.

Which leads me to what I consider one of the Ascension class concept's biggest failings: poor presentation and communication on who it's for. On the surface, it looks like a key part of everyone's builds that pretty much everyone plans around these days and an easy way for newer players to find direction for their character, but based on playing it feels much more like it was intended only for good builds to become better and it only frustrates anyone else that assumed that choosing an Ascendancy was a good start to planning a build.